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91 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

It depends on the case - the latest case I heard of involves a 17-year old male, old enough to be tried as and adult had he, say, robbed a bank. Other cases involved older males in their 20s or 30s. Also, I am not including cases in which females were very young (under 8 or so) and which did result in successful prosecution. Wojtek On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Chris Doss <lookoverhere1 at yahoo.com> wrote: > The fathers of these children being how old? > > --- On Wed, 9/30/09 ...

Document Size:	5538
Author:	Wojtek S
Date:	Wed Sep 30 06:20:52 PDT 2009

92 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

One thing I'll say about this topic -- it served as the centerpiece to one of the best novels written in English. Dennis

Document Size:	4470
Author:	Dennis Perrin
Date:	Wed Sep 30 06:14:17 PDT 2009

93 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

Matthias: Maybe things are different in your country, but guess what? Your country is wrong. [WS:] Which country is it? As to the rest of your post - I am not commenting on the morality of having sex with adolescent girls, but if you are interested in my opinion on the subject - I think it is unethical, but it also culturally defined, and in some cultures it is ethical or non-objectionable. I am commenting about what appears to be the law enforcement apparatus prosecuting someone for a violation ...

Document Size:	7958
Author:	Wojtek S
Date:	Wed Sep 30 06:13:14 PDT 2009

94 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

On Sep 30, 2009, at 1:40 AM, Shane Mage wrote: > People are slavering over the "thirteen." Populist puritan > prurience on the left First time ever I've been called a puritan. I'm an enthusiastic friend of all manner of queers and perverts. I hate the classic 70s feminist Dworkinite position on porn. I think the age of consent should be about 14. I think a lot of the priest "rape" cases are a lot more complicated than they're usually presented - that, for example, ...

Document Size:	5165
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Sep 30 06:02:54 PDT 2009

95 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 8:51 AM, Chris Doss <lookoverhere1 at yahoo.com> wrote: > I'm pretty sure things actually aren't much different in Poland. They > aren't in Russia. Yeah. I certainly make no claims about the actually existing Poland, which I don't know. Just the putative "this country" of Wojtek's post. And of course rape culture is certainly an issue in the US. As the whole reaction the the Polanski thing demonstrates.

Document Size:	4938
Author:	Matthias Wasser
Date:	Wed Sep 30 05:59:08 PDT 2009

96 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

On Sep 30, 2009, at 8:27 AM, Wojtek S wrote: > I am nonplussed. Many girls sexually mature by the age of 12. It is > not that uncommon in this country to have sex with 12-years olds, and > nobody, including law enforcement, makes any fuss about it. I > personally > know of cases of girls under 14 on parole giving birth and nothing > being > done about it. So basically what this case seems to be about is > prosecution for a violation of a sexual taboo against a white ...

Document Size:	5173
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Sep 30 05:55:31 PDT 2009

97 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

I'm pretty sure things actually aren't much different in Poland. They aren't in Russia. --- On Wed, 9/30/09, Matthias Wasser <matthias.wasser at gmail.com> wrote: > > Are you saying that an adult having sex with a pubescent is > no big deal? > Being able to give birth is "sexual maturity" in one sense, > but it doesn't > imply anything like being a morally autonomous individual, > much less a > morally autonomous individual free of coercion. (Being > ei ...

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Author:	Chris Doss
Date:	Wed Sep 30 05:51:27 PDT 2009

98 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

The fathers of these children being how old? --- On Wed, 9/30/09, Wojtek S <wsoko52 at gmail.com> wrote:   I personally > know of cases of  girls under 14 on parole giving > birth and nothing being > done about it.   

Document Size:	4722
Author:	Chris Doss
Date:	Wed Sep 30 05:43:03 PDT 2009

99 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 8:27 AM, Wojtek S <wsoko52 at gmail.com> wrote: > Doug: I don't get the cultural elite's reaction. So it's not under dispute > that the guy drugged and raped a 13-year-old girl, right? Call me a > hardass, > but that sort of thing deserves some serious time. Running off to Paris for > 35 years is hardly a substitute. Am I wrong? > > [WS:] I am nonplussed. Many girls sexually mature by the age of 12. It > is > not that uncommon in this c ...

Document Size:	6172
Author:	Matthias Wasser
Date:	Wed Sep 30 05:40:20 PDT 2009

100 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

Doug: I don't get the cultural elite's reaction. So it's not under dispute that the guy drugged and raped a 13-year-old girl, right? Call me a hardass, but that sort of thing deserves some serious time. Running off to Paris for 35 years is hardly a substitute. Am I wrong? [WS:] I am nonplussed. Many girls sexually mature by the age of 12. It is not that uncommon in this country to have sex with 12-years olds, and nobody, including law enforcement, makes any fuss about it. I personally know o ...

Document Size:	6258
Author:	Wojtek S
Date:	Wed Sep 30 05:27:00 PDT 2009

101 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 2:06 AM, SA <s11131978 at gmail.com> wrote: > harm." It's also an unusual rape case when the 13-year-old  victim and her > mother plead with the court not to sentence the perpetrator to jail, as the > mother and daughter did at the time of the original legal proceedings, in > 1977, when the crime was still fresh in everyone's minds. When the perp is a close family member, it's not unusual for victims in sex offense cases to regret disclosing or to l ...

Document Size:	5945
Author:	WD
Date:	Wed Sep 30 04:31:04 PDT 2009

102 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

On Sep 30, 2009, at 12:43 AM, Shane Mage wrote: > Not rape. *Statutory* Rape. Two totally different things. Did you read her testimony? Of course not.

Document Size:	4518
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Sep 30 04:17:08 PDT 2009

103 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

AFAIK, he's not being accused of pedophilia. Pedophilia (sexual attraction to prepubescent children) isn't even a crime. He's being accused of raping a minor. Who, since she was past puberty, was by definition not an object of pedophilia. --- On Tue, 9/29/09, Bill Bartlett <billbartlett at aapt.net.au> wrote: > > Especially when it comes to emotive issues like a celebrity > being accused of Paedophilia. >

Document Size:	4918
Author:	Chris Doss
Date:	Wed Sep 30 01:29:51 PDT 2009

104 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

On Wed, 30 Sep 2009, Shane Mage wrote: >>> Not rape. *Statutory* Rape. Two totally different things. >> >> No, not statutory rape. Rape rape. >> >> Read the transcript > > No force, no coercion is alleged. Shane, forcing yourself on a woman who's in a drugged stupor who tells you no is rape even if she's 18 and even if she got into that stupor herself. Which in this case she didn't. She was gotten into that stupor for this purpose. If you don't think tha ...

Document Size:	5138
Author:	Michael Pollak
Date:	Tue Sep 29 23:29:37 PDT 2009

105 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

Michael Pollak wrote: > No, not statutory rape. Rape rape. I found this story so intriguing I just watched the (sympathetic to Polanski) HBO documentary about it. You can watch it streaming on Netflix. It's worth seeing. But even before I saw the movie there was something about the tone of the outraged-by-Polanski side I found disturbing. Much of it (and I'm not talking about you here Michael) seems like a hysterical outpouring of puritanical zeal. In my opinion, screaming Rape! Raping! Rapi ...

Document Size:	6781
Author:	SA
Date:	Tue Sep 29 23:06:43 PDT 2009