Search LBO-Talk Archives

61 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

John Thornton writes: > I've been away from the list for several months but have > things changed so much recently that it is now considered > no big deal to drug someone of any age or gender and then rape them? The one thing that hasn't changed is that people still drop by now and again to drop off a strawman along with a little disdain. Welcome back! /jordan

Document Size:	4762
Author:	Jordan Hayes
Date:	Wed Sep 30 13:21:43 PDT 2009

62 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

Max wrote: > I venture to say that if one's body isn't one's property, nothing is. > What would have happened to RP during the Paris commune. (not a > question) Based on -- admittedly -- a very superficial knowledge of the matter, it seems to me that, in Cuba, this guy would have been executed by a firing squad. (Not an answer.)

Document Size:	4747
Author:	Julio Huato
Date:	Wed Sep 30 13:05:27 PDT 2009

63 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

His denial, in its contours, seems to parallel quite closely with other kinds of denialism: dismissing as unlikely the simplest, most probable version of events; promoting instead a scenario far more complex and improbable; taking as evidence the workings of his own imagination; and assuming of the participants abnormal levels of evil--with the exception of Mr. Polanski, whose only fault is naivete. To see this sort of thing unfold (something I've only read about, as I don't  know personally any ...

Document Size:	5526
Author:	Mark DeLucas
Date:	Wed Sep 30 12:54:02 PDT 2009

64 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

On Sep 30, 2009, at 1:48 PM, Chris Doss wrote: > > Haven't you noticed that Shane takes the contrarian position on > everything?...Why is a question for psychoanalysis. > Yes indeed. Deviant contrarianism. Under Chris's hero Brezhnev I would indeed have found myself undergoing psychiatric imprisonment. Those were the days! Shane Mage > This cosmos did none of gods or men make, but it > always was and is and shall be: an everlasting fire, > kindling in measures and going ...

Document Size:	5026
Author:	Shane Mage
Date:	Wed Sep 30 11:48:01 PDT 2009

65 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 09:13:14AM -0400, Wojtek S wrote: > I also find it peculiar that Mr. Polanski was able to move freely for about > 35 or so years and nobody gave a flying fuck about his sexual misconduct > until recently. Isn't it true that recently - very recently (end of 2008) Polanski had lawyers trying to have the original case dimissed alleging prosecutorial misconduct? Wouldn't the most simple explanation be that the DA was content to leave well-enough alone (in light of th ...

Document Size:	5947
Author:	Matt
Date:	Wed Sep 30 10:56:44 PDT 2009

66 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

At 10:40 PM 9/29/2009, Shane Mage wrote: >No force, no coercion is alleged. This is simply wrong. She said repeatedly she was afraid of him and that she said no. You can believe that or not but to say no force or coercion was alleged is, like I said, simply wrong. >People are slavering over the "thirteen I emphasized thirteen because you said she was "sexually mature." You still haven't explained what that means. And, worse, it boils down to you're saying she was a willin ...

Document Size:	5004
Author:	Dennis Claxton
Date:	Wed Sep 30 10:54:42 PDT 2009

67 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

Haven't you noticed that Shane takes the contrarian position on everything? From the sheer fact of being a Trot to the Koestler theory on the origin of Eastern European Jews to Neo-Lamarkianism to denying the Big Bang to various weird theories about antiquity all the way up to Velikovskianism. Why is a question for psychoanalysis. --- On Wed, 9/30/09, Mark DeLucas <delucasm at yahoo.com> wrote: > From: Mark DeLucas <delucasm at yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Polanski > ...

Document Size:	5824
Author:	Chris Doss
Date:	Wed Sep 30 10:48:44 PDT 2009

68 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

"The French seem to have some notion of droit de seigneur at work, even if such a thing is fictitious." Really? That would be interesting to know. My french isn't up to reading the newspapers. I would have guessed that the French view would be nationalistic anti-Americanism, of the 'you can't trust the US courts' variety. But I can imagine that, with that national difference factored in they might see it as a case of common American trollop pulling down a high cultural figure. Still, s ...

Document Size:	5056
Author:	James Heartfield
Date:	Wed Sep 30 10:48:20 PDT 2009

69 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

On Sep 30, 2009, at 1:00 PM, Dennis Claxton wrote: > Polanski has admitted it himself and I'm not talking about his > guilty plea. He's on record saying it happened at least as early as > a 60 minutes interview with Mike Wallace after he left the country Frankie Thomas, keeper of the excellent Verlyn Klinkenborg blog, posed this question as a thought experiment as a Facebook status update this morning: what if he'd raped a boy? Would the French be rushing to his defense?

Document Size:	4881
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Sep 30 10:11:37 PDT 2009

70 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

On Sep 30, 2009, at 1:00 PM, Shane Mage wrote: > Prurient fascination with a prosecutor's version of a sexual > encounter 30+ years ago lets some people treat it as a "fact." > Grand Jury transcripts may make for good pornography. They ain't > evidence any more than is a plea bargain. It's more evidence than you've got for your version. The French seem to have some notion of droit de seigneur at work, even if such a thing is fictitious.

Document Size:	4873
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Sep 30 10:08:27 PDT 2009

71 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

At 06:54 PM 9/29/2009, Doug Henwood wrote: >My understanding is that no one disputes that he gave the girl >a 'lude and raped her. Am I wrong about that? Polanski has admitted it himself and I'm not talking about his guilty plea. He's on record saying it happened at least as early as a 60 minutes interview with Mike Wallace after he left the country.

Document Size:	4768
Author:	Dennis Claxton
Date:	Wed Sep 30 10:00:42 PDT 2009

72 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

> denial of the fact that Polanski etc. Prurient fascination with a prosecutor's version of a sexual encounter 30+ years ago lets some people treat it as a "fact." Grand Jury transcripts may make for good pornography. They ain't evidence any more than is a plea bargain. Shane Mage > This cosmos did none of gods or men make, but it > always was and is and shall be: an everlasting fire, > kindling in measures and going out in measures." > > Herakleitos of Eph ...

Document Size:	4937
Author:	Shane Mage
Date:	Wed Sep 30 10:00:14 PDT 2009

73 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

There was a good documentary on the problems with the Polanski sentencing - I couldn't remember it all so I'm borrowing this account from http://www.leanleft.com/archives/2009/09/29/8613/: "He did not flee to avoid prosecution for the crime; he did not even flee to avoid sentencing, at first: after being allowed to travel abroad to complete a film project in the interval between trial and sentencing, he returned to the US on his own recognizance to accept a sentence in the case in which his ...

Document Size:	7109
Author:	James Heartfield
Date:	Wed Sep 30 09:05:06 PDT 2009

74 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

Psychologically speaking, how does Shane's denial of the fact that Polanski drugged and then had non-consensual sex  with a girl compare with other kinds of denialisms--of evolution, say, or the moon landing?

Document Size:	4572
Author:	Mark DeLucas
Date:	Wed Sep 30 08:54:09 PDT 2009

75 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

On Sep 30, 2009, at 11:23 AM, Doug Henwood wrote: > > On Sep 30, 2009, at 11:14 AM, Shane Mage wrote: > >> Is there any other issue, any other conceivable issue, on which >> Leftists can be found to side with Le Pen and against Costa-Gavras? > > If you're going to make a list of personalities, how do you feel > about siding with BHL? If BHL sides with Costa-Gavras I'm OK with that. If BHL doesn't side with LePen et al. I'm OK with that too. Shane Mage > This cosm ...

Document Size:	5208
Author:	Shane Mage
Date:	Wed Sep 30 08:33:20 PDT 2009