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121 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

> ...So, instead of withdrawing his plea and > exercising his right to a trial, he decides to bolt...It is > truly shocking how little it takes to convince a jury to lock someone > up forever -- and for an appellate court to uphold the verdict and > sentence. Imagined dialogue between an experienced, sympathetic, adult prosecutor with a thirteen year old aspiring model whose mother has called the cops when informed that her daughter had had sex with a rich movie director. Total ...

Document Size:	7701
Author:	Shane Mage
Date:	Tue Sep 29 20:14:18 PDT 2009

122 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

SA asks: > Does anyone know how much time Polanski would be facing if tried and > convicted? Who cares? He cut a deal and the wack judge backed out. I would have left, too! /jordan

Document Size:	4563
Author:	Jordan Hayes
Date:	Tue Sep 29 19:49:34 PDT 2009

123 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

Doug continues: >> No one disputes that OJ killed his wife, right? > > Well, yeah, but no one who counts. That's the point: this isn't about whether Polanski had sex with a 13 year old girl. But that's what you seem to want to make it about. /jordan

Document Size:	4647
Author:	Jordan Hayes
Date:	Tue Sep 29 19:47:38 PDT 2009

124 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

Doug Henwood wrote: > On Sep 29, 2009, at 9:32 PM, John S Costello wrote: > >> Yes, how terrible that the government has an axe to grind when a >> 13-year-old child is raped. It should keep its nose out of people's >> private >> affairs! How uppity of it! > > This is one of the more noxious pieces of crap I've read in some time: > > <http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joan-z-shore/polanskis-arrest-shame-on_b_301134.html>. > > > The cultural el ...

Document Size:	5485
Author:	SA
Date:	Tue Sep 29 19:30:25 PDT 2009

125 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

On Sep 29, 2009, at 10:15 PM, andie nachgeborenen wrote: > the judge will ask the Defenfant under oath of it is true. In > addition the Defendant will typically be expected to make an > allocution, to describe the crime in his own words. A good judge > who's not too busy will dig hard to get a detailed story. Point is, > the plea is not the whole story James Earl Ray Shane Mage > This cosmos did none of gods or men make, but it > always was and is and shall be: an everlasti ...

Document Size:	5086
Author:	Shane Mage
Date:	Tue Sep 29 19:27:57 PDT 2009

126 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

On Sep 29, 2009, at 9:59 PM, Jordan Hayes wrote: > No one disputes that OJ killed his wife, right? Well, yeah, but no one who counts.

Document Size:	4500
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Tue Sep 29 19:24:00 PDT 2009

127 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

On Sep 29, 2009, at 9:41 PM, Doug Henwood wrote: > > The cultural elite is going to turn me into Bill O'Reilly before > this is all over. The moment you parrot the phrase "The cultural elite" you've already been turned. Shane Mage > This cosmos did none of gods or men make, but it > always was and is and shall be: an everlasting fire, > kindling in measures and going out in measures." > > Herakleitos of Ephesos

Document Size:	4921
Author:	Shane Mage
Date:	Tue Sep 29 19:23:09 PDT 2009

128 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 7:42 PM, <shrill.polemic at gmail.com> wrote: > I think much of the outrage is over the misconduct of the prosecutor and > judge during the trial. As I recall they basically reneged on a plea > agreement and Polanski fled. It's all detailed in the HBO documentary, Roman > Polanski: Wanted and Desired. One can fault the judge for offering a plea > deal that was too lenient, but that isn't Polanski's fault. Add tot that, > the victim, Samantha Geime ...

Document Size:	7211
Author:	WD
Date:	Tue Sep 29 19:18:54 PDT 2009

129 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

You plead to the charges in the indictment, maybe as modified by the plea bargain, which may be more than the the facts that satisfy the elements of the crime. (Although you plead to those at a minimum.) So unless you are lying in your plea, the plea is a subset of the facts. We have real offense rather than charge offense sentencing, means not everyone who pleads to the same thing gets the same sentence. So the courts get, typically, the parole board (not consering parole at this stage) to int ...

Document Size:	7287
Author:	andie nachgeborenen
Date:	Tue Sep 29 19:15:16 PDT 2009

130 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

Doug writes: > What one pleads guilty to and the facts of a case are two separate > things. And yet is stuck on: > My understanding is that no one disputes that he gave the girl > a 'lude and raped her. Am I wrong about that? No one disputes that OJ killed his wife, right? /jordan

Document Size:	4699
Author:	Jordan Hayes
Date:	Tue Sep 29 18:59:34 PDT 2009

131 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

On Sep 29, 2009, at 9:42 PM, Sandy Harris wrote: > On 9/30/09, Doug Henwood <dhenwood at panix.com> wrote: > >>> There's nothing so-called about it. Polanski pleaded guilty and >>> the facts >> are hardly in dispute. >> >> I don't get the cultural elite's reaction. So it's not under >> dispute that >> the guy drugged and raped a 13-year-old girl, right? > > It's not under dispute that he had sex with her. That's what he > plea ...

Document Size:	5257
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Tue Sep 29 18:54:32 PDT 2009

132 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

wow, Nation ed Katrina vanden Heuvel is defending the great man: <http://twitter.com/KatrinaNation>

Document Size:	4493
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Tue Sep 29 18:46:54 PDT 2009

133 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

On 9/30/09, Doug Henwood <dhenwood at panix.com> wrote: > > There's nothing so-called about it. Polanski pleaded guilty and the facts > are hardly in dispute. > > I don't get the cultural elite's reaction. So it's not under dispute that > the guy drugged and raped a 13-year-old girl, right? It's not under dispute that he had sex with her. That's what he plead guilty to.

Document Size:	4900
Author:	Sandy Harris
Date:	Tue Sep 29 18:42:53 PDT 2009

134 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

On Sep 29, 2009, at 9:32 PM, John S Costello wrote: > Yes, how terrible that the government has an axe to grind when a > 13-year-old child is raped. It should keep its nose out of people's > private > affairs! How uppity of it! This is one of the more noxious pieces of crap I've read in some time: <http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joan-z-shore/polanskis-arrest-shame-on_b_301134.html >. The cultural elite is going to turn me into Bill O'Reilly before this is all over. Doug

Document Size:	5007
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Tue Sep 29 18:41:33 PDT 2009

135 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

> > So the government appears to be the only party with an axe to grind here. > > shrill Yes, how terrible that the government has an axe to grind when a 13-year-old child is raped. It should keep its nose out of people's private affairs! How uppity of it! -- "The urge to fly from modern systems, instead of moving through them to even greater, fairer things is, I think, an indication of deep weariness and confusion." -- Dwayne Monroe

Document Size:	4904
Author:	John S Costello
Date:	Tue Sep 29 18:32:38 PDT 2009