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181 [lbo-talk] lbo-talk Digest, Vol 1603, Issue 6 (Politics in the DP) -- rank: 858

SA s11131978 at gmail.com On 6/16/2011 6:02 PM, Carrol Cox wrote: > And if you try to explain whfy it was not a "third party" in your > sense your search will take you to several decades of non-electoral > activity. Well - both electoral and non-electoral activity. Abolitionist ...

Document Size:	5731
Author:	c b
Date:	Fri Jun 17 09:24:33 PDT 2011

182 [lbo-talk] lbo-talk Digest, Vol 1603, Issue 6 (Politics in the DP) -- rank: 858

Doug: "If a social movement wants to take the form of a political party, why not?" [WS:] Exactly. But of all many social movements in the US, none formed a new party - all got absorbed to either of the two parties. Ever wondered why? These were smart, political savvy people - they ...

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Author:	Wojtek S
Date:	Fri Jun 17 06:35:29 PDT 2011

183 [lbo-talk] lbo-talk Digest, Vol 1603, Issue 6 (Politics in the DP) -- rank: 858

On Jun 17, 2011, at 9:16 AM, Wojtek S wrote: > Doug: "Though they haven't won, they've changed the discourse - from > Debs to Perot." > > [WS:] The only raison d'etre of political parties is to get elected, > not to change the discourse. Changing the discourse is the job of ...

Document Size:	5292
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Fri Jun 17 06:21:19 PDT 2011

184 [lbo-talk] lbo-talk Digest, Vol 1603, Issue 6 (Politics in the DP) -- rank: 858

Doug: "Though they haven't won, they've changed the discourse - from Debs to Perot." [WS:] The only raison d'etre of political parties is to get elected, not to change the discourse. Changing the discourse is the job of social movements. And the US electoral system provides no room for ...

Document Size:	6106
Author:	Wojtek S
Date:	Fri Jun 17 06:16:16 PDT 2011

185 [lbo-talk] lbo-talk Digest, Vol 1603, Issue 6 (Politics in the DP) -- rank: 858

Carrol: "The '30s are not intelligible if you leave out Huey Long, Townsend, the Bonus marchers, the CPUSA, and a number of other events and organizations the existence of which cannot be incorporated into an understanding of "formal" political events of the period. [WS:] These are social movements, not political parties ...

Document Size:	9871
Author:	Wojtek S
Date:	Fri Jun 17 06:07:27 PDT 2011

186 [lbo-talk] lbo-talk Digest, Vol 1603, Issue 6 (Politics in the DP) -- rank: 858

Doug: "Though they haven't won, they've changed the discourse - from Debs to Perot." [WS:] The only raison d'etre of political parties is to get elected, not to change the discourse. Changing the discourse is the job of social movements. And the US electoral system provides no room for ...

Document Size:	6104
Author:	Wojtek S
Date:	Fri Jun 17 05:36:40 PDT 2011

187 [lbo-talk] lbo-talk Digest, Vol 1603, Issue 6 (Politics in the DP) -- rank: 858

On 6/16/2011 6:02 PM, Carrol Cox wrote: > And if you try to explain whfy it was not a "third party" in your > sense your search will take you to several decades of non-electoral > activity. Well - both electoral and non-electoral activity. Abolitionist agitation, on the one hand ...

Document Size:	5192
Author:	SA
Date:	Thu Jun 16 15:09:20 PDT 2011

188 [lbo-talk] lbo-talk Digest, Vol 1603, Issue 6 (Politics in the DP) -- rank: 858

And if you try to explain whfy it was not a "third party" in your sense your search will take you to several decades of non-electoral activity. Carrol On 6/16/2011 4:04 PM, SA wrote: > On 6/16/2011 4:22 PM, Shane Mage wrote: > >> On Jun 16 ...

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Author:	Carrol Cox
Date:	Thu Jun 16 15:02:43 PDT 2011

189 [lbo-talk] lbo-talk Digest, Vol 1603, Issue 6 (Politics in the DP) -- rank: 858

On 6/16/2011 4:22 PM, Shane Mage wrote: > On Jun 16, 2011, at 10:12 AM, Wojtek S wrote: > >> >> [WS:] As opposed to third parties which, as we all know, achieved >> stupendous political successes in the US history. > > Maybe they weren't "stupendous," but the crushing of the Slave ...

Document Size:	6511
Author:	SA
Date:	Thu Jun 16 14:04:54 PDT 2011

190 [lbo-talk] lbo-talk Digest, Vol 1603, Issue 6 (Politics in the DP) -- rank: 858

On Jun 16, 2011, at 10:12 AM, Wojtek S wrote: > > [WS:] As opposed to third parties which, as we all know, achieved > stupendous political successes in the US history. Maybe they weren't "stupendous," but the crushing of the Slave Power and the addition of the 13th, 14th, and 15th ...

Document Size:	5418
Author:	Shane Mage
Date:	Thu Jun 16 13:22:56 PDT 2011

191 [lbo-talk] lbo-talk Digest, Vol 1603, Issue 6 (Politics in the DP) -- rank: 858

It doesn't seem as though W has ever seriously read _any_ u.s. political history, his declarations aboat it being so off the point. The Republican Party began life as a "Third Party," and the background to it's ultimate success includes a great deal of non-electoral activity. Alternative ...

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Author:	Carrol Cox
Date:	Thu Jun 16 10:25:39 PDT 2011

192 [lbo-talk] lbo-talk Digest, Vol 1603, Issue 6 (Politics in the DP) -- rank: 858

At 08:54 AM 6/16/2011, Doug Henwood wrote: >Though they haven't won, they've changed the discourse - from Debs to Perot. You could almost count Eugene McCarthy in there.

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Author:	Dennis Claxton
Date:	Thu Jun 16 09:13:48 PDT 2011

193 [lbo-talk] lbo-talk Digest, Vol 1603, Issue 6 (Politics in the DP) -- rank: 858

On Jun 16, 2011, at 10:12 AM, Wojtek S wrote: > As opposed to third parties which, as we all know, achieved > stupendous political successes in the US history. Though they haven't won, they've changed the discourse - from Debs to Perot. Doug

Document Size:	5101
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Thu Jun 16 08:54:47 PDT 2011

194 [lbo-talk] lbo-talk Digest, Vol 1603, Issue 6 (Politics in the DP) -- rank: 858

Anthony: "Accepting the terms of the game set by people who want to kill you will never get you anywhere. An Independent Left, organized in legitimate Left principles and armed (figuratively speaking) to defend themselves against the antics of the Right AND the Center can ultimately do far more damage than ...

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Author:	Wojtek S
Date:	Thu Jun 16 07:12:44 PDT 2011

195 [lbo-talk] lbo-talk Digest, Vol 1603, Issue 6 (Politics -- rank: 858

I think he told Biden to fuck off over the Bush tax cut extension thing...or something to that effect. He was one of the people leading the fight against Obama on that. That is probably why he is going. I don't know how much his personality came into play ...

Document Size:	5033
Author:	brad
Date:	Thu Jun 16 05:58:45 PDT 2011