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76 [lbo-talk] lbo-talk Digest, Vol 1122, Issue 4 -- rank: 858

Dennis Claxton wrote: > > At 07:19 PM 2/4/2010, Carrol Cox wrote: > > >In other words, all the posters, though they will deny this loudly, > >are claiming > >to be able to rad tea leaves (public opinion now) and on the basis > >predict the future. > > And you're claiming to be able ...

Document Size:	8402
Author:	Carrol Cox
Date:	Fri Feb 5 14:27:35 PST 2010

77 [lbo-talk] lbo-talk Digest, Vol 1122, Issue 4 -- rank: 858

At 07:19 PM 2/4/2010, Carrol Cox wrote: >In other words, all the posters, though they will deny this loudly, >are claiming >to be able to rad tea leaves (public opinion now) and on the basis >predict the future. And you're claiming to be able to read minds ...

Document Size:	4954
Author:	Dennis Claxton
Date:	Fri Feb 5 09:23:15 PST 2010

78 [lbo-talk] Transforming the masses (was lbo-talk Digest, Vol 1122, Issue 4) -- rank: 858

On Feb 4, 2010, at 4:46 PM, James Heartfield wrote: > It certainly implies a transformation of the masses in their outlook. > But without the masses, what is it but a lot of smug platitudes coined > to make you feel superior. Doug wrote: Well exactly. But there's a reluctance among ...

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Author:	Joanna
Date:	Thu Feb 4 21:33:05 PST 2010

79 [lbo-talk] lbo-talk Digest, Vol 1123, Issue 4/reply to brad b -- rank: 858

I have never in my life attacked the rural. Southern Utah is one of my very favorite locales and hardly anyone lives there. I don't much like suburbs and exurbs. The houses are too big and wasteful of energy. Most of them are pretty ugly too. All too often people ...

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Author:	MICHAEL YATES
Date:	Thu Feb 4 20:37:26 PST 2010

80 [lbo-talk] lbo-talk Digest, Vol 1123, Issue 4 -- rank: 858

> > > You can make all the impressionistic arguments you like but you're > wrong. E.g.: > > http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/results/president/exit-polls.html > > share of vote for Obama by size of place > > big cities 70% > small cities 59 > suburbs 50 > small towns 45 > rural areas 45 > > OK, I ...

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Author:	brad bauerly
Date:	Thu Feb 4 20:09:48 PST 2010

81 [lbo-talk] lbo-talk Digest, Vol 1122, Issue 4 -- rank: 858

Dennis Claxton wrote: > That's not the context for what Michael wrote. He gave a > descriptive account of what he's observed and it was posted here to > give info about the lay of the land to people who are interested in change. The problem with ALL the posts, from all ...

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Author:	Carrol Cox
Date:	Thu Feb 4 19:19:21 PST 2010

82 [lbo-talk] lbo-talk Digest, Vol 1122, Issue 4/in reply to Doug's question/in reply to ... -- rank: 858

The way I see it, the vast mass of people are wage laborers, and as such, they are objectively in opposition to their employers (subjectively they may have all sorts of notions). So I try to write as a member of the class of wage laborers, in opposition to their class ...

Document Size:	5418
Author:	MICHAEL YATES
Date:	Thu Feb 4 15:29:52 PST 2010

83 [lbo-talk] Political geography ( Was: lbo-talk Digest, Vol 1122, Issue 4) -- rank: 858

On 2010-02-04, at 1:21 PM, Doug Henwood wrote: > > On Feb 4, 2010, at 1:08 PM, Carrol Cox wrote: > >> Density was not always equtable with politics. I had a great uncle who >> organized sheepherders in Idaho and Montana for the IWW -- and Henry >> Wallace's running mate in ...

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Author:	Marv Gandall
Date:	Thu Feb 4 15:10:34 PST 2010

84 [lbo-talk] lbo-talk Digest, Vol 1122, Issue 4 -- rank: 858

At 01:44 PM 2/4/2010, brad bauerly wrote: >Yeah, that's been posted three times now. What about what he wrote a day or >two before that? It was, if I remember correctly, quite disparaging. Your question was why people should listen to someone disparaging them. That's not ...

Document Size:	5238
Author:	Dennis Claxton
Date:	Thu Feb 4 14:10:30 PST 2010

85 [lbo-talk] Political geography ( Was: lbo-talk Digest, Vol 1122, Issue 4) -- rank: 858

At 10:21 AM 2/4/2010, Doug Henwood wrote: >Very true. See Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz's excellent Red Dirt: Growing Up >Okie for an account of the multiracial rebels of Oklahoma. Great book. Oklahoma had a very strong socialist party in the early years of the 20th century. It faltered ...

Document Size:	6325
Author:	Dennis Claxton
Date:	Thu Feb 4 13:22:44 PST 2010

86 [lbo-talk] lbo-talk Digest, Vol 1122, Issue 4 -- rank: 858

On Feb 4, 2010, at 4:46 PM, James Heartfield wrote: > It certainly implies a transformation of the masses in their > outlook. But without the masses, what is it but a lot of smug > platitudes coined to make you feel superior. Well exactly. But there's a reluctance among many, including ...

Document Size:	5013
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Thu Feb 4 13:58:34 PST 2010

87 [lbo-talk] lbo-talk Digest, Vol 1122, Issue 4 -- rank: 858

Doug, to Michael: 'Michael, you devoted a few hundred words to a critique of how many/most Americans think and act. Then you say we should write as one of them. But you don't make membership in the group seem very attractive. Though this may sound blunt, I ask this ...

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Author:	James Heartfield
Date:	Thu Feb 4 13:46:16 PST 2010

88 [lbo-talk] lbo-talk Digest, Vol 1122, Issue 4 -- rank: 858

>Who's disparaging? I'm going to post this from Michael Yates again >because, like the credits in Bride of Frankenstein say, it bears repeating Yeah, that's been posted three times now. What about what he wrote a day or two before that? It was, if I remember correctly ...

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Author:	brad bauerly
Date:	Thu Feb 4 13:44:30 PST 2010

89 [lbo-talk] lbo-talk Digest, Vol 1122, Issue 4 -- rank: 858

The other day, Michael Yates wrote: > Engage the people. Act with them when you can. Write for them and as > one of them, not about them. I've been thinking about this. Michael, you devoted a few hundred words to a critique of how many/most Americans think and act. Then ...

Document Size:	5151
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Thu Feb 4 12:41:26 PST 2010

90 [lbo-talk] lbo-talk Digest, Vol 1122, Issue 4 -- rank: 858

At 07:54 PM 2/3/2010, brad bauerly wrote: > > Left wingers' fear and contempt for suburbanites, for the white > > working classes, the chavs, 'mouth-breathers', is a refrain that is > > sadly not that original. And - lo and behold! - radical ideas are > > not that popular. Could there be a connection? > > >No ...

Document Size:	6445
Author:	Dennis Claxton
Date:	Thu Feb 4 09:37:35 PST 2010