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166 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

Doug Henwood wrote: > A civil war isn't really an imperialist adventure. The U.S. was one > country when the south seceded, and it became one country once again > after 1865. That's not much like bombing Afghanistan. But the point is that for the majority of the South's population ...

Document Size:	5097
Author:	SA
Date:	Thu Apr 8 10:10:59 PDT 2010

167 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

On Apr 8, 2010, at 12:35 PM, Joseph Catron wrote: > nd for all I know, you might also agree with the M-E line on the > Mexican-American War. My interest here is the way these positions > differ > from those held by anti-imperialists of the Marxist left today. A ...

Document Size:	5216
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Thu Apr 8 09:55:28 PDT 2010

168 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

Joseph writes: 'I'm hard-pressed to believe it [abolition] was much more than that [propaganda].' But slavery was abolished. So it wasn't just propaganda. Is slavery such an incidental to you that you don't mind if it is or is not abolished? Joseph asks: 'Do you think that ...

Document Size:	5655
Author:	James Heartfield
Date:	Thu Apr 8 09:49:02 PDT 2010

169 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 7:52 AM, James Heartfield < Heartfield at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: Help me out, Joe. Are you saying that the cause of anti-slavery was mere > propaganda in the case of the U.S. civil war? In which case, I disagree. Or > have I misunderstood ...

Document Size:	6144
Author:	Joseph Catron
Date:	Thu Apr 8 09:35:21 PDT 2010

170 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

Chris C. writes: " his (their) judgments were about not about phenomena in and of themselves, but rather what potentially advanced or blocked the changes he (they) wanted to politically pursue" I wonder if this way of putting it introduces too great a distinction between objective circumstance and subjective goal. If the ...

Document Size:	6994
Author:	James Heartfield
Date:	Thu Apr 8 08:51:45 PDT 2010

171 [lbo-talk] Fwd: Re: Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

shag carpet bomb wrote: > See also: Eric's recent post about trying to avoid the > patronizing position that these other people can't possibly have a > politics and that anything that smacks of a politics that's supportive > of u.s. intervention or NATO intervention has to be the work of ...

Document Size:	5479
Author:	SA
Date:	Thu Apr 8 07:43:48 PDT 2010

172 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 812

... 8, 2010 6:15:15 PM Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why Chris: they ...

Document Size:	6266
Author:	Chris Doss
Date:	Thu Apr 8 07:26:54 PDT 2010

173 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 812

Chris: they had no problem siding with larger nations against smaller ones if they thought the former were progressive (which ironically usually meant more capitalist) and the latter backward. [WS:] I have no interest in hagiography - but the position itself warrants some thought (whether or not it was actually proposed by ...

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Author:	Wojtek S
Date:	Thu Apr 8 07:15:15 PDT 2010

174 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 954

P.S. On Marx on the American Civil War: I think that, while I remain sympathetic to the Union side in the American Civil War, history shows that crushing slavery in the American South, the degree to which it did not lead simply to the strengthening of the American workers' movement ...

Document Size:	14521
Author:	Christopher Cutrone
Date:	Thu Apr 8 06:52:53 PDT 2010

175 [lbo-talk] Fwd: Re: Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

i could only speak for me on a hypothetical but, well, did you read the great Iranian women and feminism debate? There you go, my policy in action. See also: Eric's recent post about trying to avoid the patronizing position that these other people can't possibly have a politics ...

Document Size:	8084
Author:	shag carpet bomb
Date:	Thu Apr 8 06:51:41 PDT 2010

176 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 904

(I'm glad to see that Platypus instigates such debate!) I think we make a fundamental mistake ...

Document Size:	10066
Author:	Christopher Cutrone
Date:	Thu Apr 8 06:36:48 PDT 2010

177 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

There isn't a problem. My point waaaay back when was that you certainly could use Marx to justify support for the war in Afghanistan if you wanted to, no more, no less. ----- Original Message ---- From: James Heartfield <Heartfield at blueyonder.co.uk> Not really seeing a problem here. Marx and ...

Document Size:	6202
Author:	Chris Doss
Date:	Thu Apr 8 05:41:33 PDT 2010

178 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

>Anarchists were generally much more suspicious >of the virtues of national unification than >were Marx & Engels. Concerning the American >Civil War, Marx & Engels were strong supporters >of Lincoln, whereas Proudhon was supportive of >the Confederacy. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There is an excellent book on this by August Nimtz- http://www.amazon.com/Marx ...

Document Size:	5665
Author:	brad bauerly
Date:	Thu Apr 8 05:16:34 PDT 2010

179 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

Chris writes: 'In other words, they had no problem siding with larger nations against smaller ones if they thought the former were progressive' Not really seeing a problem here. Marx and Engels had no interest in nations as such, only what was good for mankind in general. Like most Scots did ...

Document Size:	5819
Author:	James Heartfield
Date:	Thu Apr 8 05:16:12 PDT 2010

180 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

Well yeah, Bakunin's Judeophobia is well-known and creepy. But that's not terribly relevant. Marx of course said similar things about Jews, even though he wasn't quite so conspiratorial about it. God I'm tired. ----- Original Message ---- From: Mike Beggs <mikejbeggs at gmail.com> Also that Marx was ...

Document Size:	6128
Author:	Chris Doss
Date:	Thu Apr 8 05:09:25 PDT 2010