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151 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

I'll go with "a course of action is good or bad according as the results are good or bad", but there are two problems with it: you don't know until it's all over and it's rare that results aren't awfully mixed. The North was right in ...

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Author:	Gail Brock
Date:	Thu Apr 8 13:03:46 PDT 2010

152 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 844

... directly last night: I don't know of anyone in Platypus who supports the U.S. in any of its wars ... I still haven't heard from you as to whether > Platypus supports the U.S. war in Afghanistan. Does it? Are ...

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Author:	Bhaskar Sunkara
Date:	Thu Apr 8 13:00:22 PDT 2010

153 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 812

Christopher Cutrone wrote, >Whatever else may be fallacious about their thinking, one thing that >speaks to the rationality of the positions taken by such types as >Hitchens, Makiya, Glavin, et al. is their recognition that their is no >effective Left politics, i.e., that there is no real potential progressive >"anti ...

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Author:	Joanne Landy
Date:	Thu Apr 8 12:35:57 PDT 2010

154 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

I don't mean to go out on a limb here, but I think the North's victory in the Civil War was a fine thing. But there is still a parallel of a sort. If you have some monochromatic, ahistorical opposition to all big bad capitalist governments, I don't ...

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Author:	Max Sawicky
Date:	Thu Apr 8 12:11:48 PDT 2010

155 [lbo-talk] Fwd: Re: Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 876

... ccutrone at speedsite.com> wrote: > There was some talk of Platypus being "ultra-subsumptionist" or "Hegelian." > This is not only a ... misunderstood what I was saying. I didn't say the Platypus goal was to "subsume" anything. I was thinking of the distinction Marx made between formal subsumption and real subsumption. Platypus, I had thought, believed that the latter must be brought ...

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Author:	Eric Beck
Date:	Thu Apr 8 11:52:54 PDT 2010

156 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

At what point does "imperialism" become a semantic issue? If a region has different socioeconomic interests from the rest of a nation but is in a relatively powerless position within the national government but the national government enforces the interests of the different powerful region, how does this differ from external ...

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Author:	Gail Brock
Date:	Thu Apr 8 11:29:52 PDT 2010

157 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

So would you oppose the French Revolution, because it featured the triumph of the bourgeoisie, our sworn class enemy? Even take a "not a Civil War," but a classic case of imperialist aggression viewpoint: This argument doesn't make sense, because 2010 isn't 1865. On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at ...

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Author:	Bhaskar Sunkara
Date:	Thu Apr 8 11:29:19 PDT 2010

158 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

Doug Henwood wrote: > Actually, on further thought, I'm not sure I have some "principled" > opposition to imperialism, in some rigid, a priori sense. It does seem > to be an empirical fact, however, that every U.S. military > intervention has been evil. That's just what I think too. With the ...

Document Size:	5085
Author:	SA
Date:	Thu Apr 8 11:26:21 PDT 2010

159 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

Doug Henwood wrote: > On Apr 8, 2010, at 1:10 PM, SA wrote: > >> But the point is that for the majority of the South's population, it >> wasn't one country. It was one group of states attacking another >> group of states. It was only called a Civil War in the ...

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Author:	SA
Date:	Thu Apr 8 11:16:32 PDT 2010

160 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

Actually, on further thought, I'm not sure I have some "principled" opposition to imperialism, in some rigid, a priori sense. It does seem to be an empirical fact, however, that every U.S. military intervention has been evil. Doug

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Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Thu Apr 8 11:10:24 PDT 2010

161 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

Doug Henwood wrote: > > On Apr 8, 2010, at 1:10 PM, SA wrote: > > > But the point is that for the majority of the South's population, it > > wasn't one country. It was one group of states attacking another > > group of states. It was only called a Civil War in the ...

Document Size:	5985
Author:	Carrol Cox
Date:	Thu Apr 8 10:55:16 PDT 2010

162 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

It's worth separating out "slavery was the cause of the war" from "Northern moral opposition to slavery was the cause of the war." The former does not require the latter. On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 1:45 PM, SA <s11131978 at gmail.com> wrote: > Joseph Catron wrote: > > It seems ...

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Author:	Matthias Wasser
Date:	Thu Apr 8 10:54:11 PDT 2010

163 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

Joseph Catron wrote: > It seems pretty obvious to me that the Union chose war for all the > predictable economic reasons (tariffs, etc.) and used abolitionism - which > took on a life of its own - to rally the proles. It would be a strange war, > indeed, in which the bourgeoisie actually came out ...

Document Size:	5342
Author:	SA
Date:	Thu Apr 8 10:45:16 PDT 2010

164 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

On Apr 8, 2010, at 1:10 PM, SA wrote: > But the point is that for the majority of the South's population, it > wasn't one country. It was one group of states attacking another > group of states. It was only called a Civil War in the North. Well of ...

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Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Thu Apr 8 10:32:04 PDT 2010

165 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 12:49 PM, James Heartfield < Heartfield at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: But slavery was abolished. So it wasn't just propaganda. How long do you imagine it might have lasted without military conflict? Economic forces sufficed to destroy it in most of the hemisphere pretty ...

Document Size:	6312
Author:	Joseph Catron
Date:	Thu Apr 8 10:25:09 PDT 2010