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76 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 2:06 AM, SA <s11131978 at gmail.com> wrote: > harm." It's also an unusual rape case when the 13-year-old  victim and her > mother plead with the court not to sentence the perpetrator to jail, as the > mother and daughter did at the time of the original legal proceedings, in > 1977, when the crime was still fresh in everyone's minds. When the perp is a close family member, it's not unusual for victims in sex offense cases to regret disclosing or to l ...

Document Size:	5945
Author:	WD
Date:	Wed Sep 30 04:31:04 PDT 2009

77 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

On Sep 30, 2009, at 12:43 AM, Shane Mage wrote: > Not rape. *Statutory* Rape. Two totally different things. Did you read her testimony? Of course not.

Document Size:	4518
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Sep 30 04:17:08 PDT 2009

78 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

AFAIK, he's not being accused of pedophilia. Pedophilia (sexual attraction to prepubescent children) isn't even a crime. He's being accused of raping a minor. Who, since she was past puberty, was by definition not an object of pedophilia. --- On Tue, 9/29/09, Bill Bartlett <billbartlett at aapt.net.au> wrote: > > Especially when it comes to emotive issues like a celebrity > being accused of Paedophilia. >

Document Size:	4918
Author:	Chris Doss
Date:	Wed Sep 30 01:29:51 PDT 2009

79 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

On Wed, 30 Sep 2009, Shane Mage wrote: >>> Not rape. *Statutory* Rape. Two totally different things. >> >> No, not statutory rape. Rape rape. >> >> Read the transcript > > No force, no coercion is alleged. Shane, forcing yourself on a woman who's in a drugged stupor who tells you no is rape even if she's 18 and even if she got into that stupor herself. Which in this case she didn't. She was gotten into that stupor for this purpose. If you don't think tha ...

Document Size:	5138
Author:	Michael Pollak
Date:	Tue Sep 29 23:29:37 PDT 2009

80 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

Michael Pollak wrote: > No, not statutory rape. Rape rape. I found this story so intriguing I just watched the (sympathetic to Polanski) HBO documentary about it. You can watch it streaming on Netflix. It's worth seeing. But even before I saw the movie there was something about the tone of the outraged-by-Polanski side I found disturbing. Much of it (and I'm not talking about you here Michael) seems like a hysterical outpouring of puritanical zeal. In my opinion, screaming Rape! Raping! Rapi ...

Document Size:	6781
Author:	SA
Date:	Tue Sep 29 23:06:43 PDT 2009

81 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

On Sep 30, 2009, at 12:55 AM, Michael Pollak wrote: >> On Sep 30, 2009, at 12:32 AM, Michael Pollak wrote: >>> And not sex, rape. It's a different thing. >> Not rape. *Statutory* Rape. Two totally different things. > No, not statutory rape. Rape rape. > Read the transcript No force, no coercion is alleged. If the lady had not been in a legal purdah there would have been no shadow of a case. People are slavering over the "thirteen." Populist puritan pru ...

Document Size:	5311
Author:	Shane Mage
Date:	Tue Sep 29 22:40:32 PDT 2009

82 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

At 12:37 AM -0400 30/9/09, Shane Mage wrote: >It is that, but I don't think anyone has argued that. The argument >has nothing to do with minimizing Polanski's conduct, which >certainly was foolish and self- indulgent and expressive of a >foolish and self-indulgent milieu (which the "victim" and her mother >were eager to become part of). That would be alleged conduct. Conduct he was accused of. If he is guilty of it, in the full sense of the word "guilt", then ...

Document Size:	6315
Author:	Bill Bartlett
Date:	Tue Sep 29 22:00:56 PDT 2009

83 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

On Tue, 29 Sep 2009, Jordan Hayes wrote: >> What do you think it's about? > > I think he's set this up to finish it off once and for all. You gotta > pick your battles, and this is the one he's picking. But that's just > me. I'm not sure what question that's the answer to. But if you're saying it was Polanski who got himself arrested when he could easily have lived the rest of his life out in peace, I completely agree. Michael

Document Size:	4881
Author:	Michael Pollak
Date:	Tue Sep 29 21:59:46 PDT 2009

84 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

> On Sep 30, 2009, at 12:32 AM, Michael Pollak wrote: >> >> And not sex, rape. It's a different thing. > > Not rape. *Statutory* Rape. Two totally different things. No, not statutory rape. Rape rape. Read the transcript, Shane: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0610081polanski1.html Michael

Document Size:	4841
Author:	Michael Pollak
Date:	Tue Sep 29 21:55:25 PDT 2009

85 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

Michael Pollak asks: > What do you think it's about? I think he's set this up to finish it off once and for all. You gotta pick your battles, and this is the one he's picking. But that's just me. /jordan

Document Size:	4574
Author:	Jordan Hayes
Date:	Tue Sep 29 21:47:20 PDT 2009

86 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

On Sep 30, 2009, at 12:32 AM, Michael Pollak wrote: > > And not sex, rape. It's a different thing. Not rape. *Statutory* Rape. Two totally different things. Shane Mage > This cosmos did none of gods or men make, but it > always was and is and shall be: an everlasting fire, > kindling in measures and going out in measures." > > Herakleitos of Ephesos

Document Size:	4828
Author:	Shane Mage
Date:	Tue Sep 29 21:43:51 PDT 2009

87 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

On Sep 29, 2009, at 11:58 PM, Bill Bartlett wrote: > > All the same, I am struck by the awfulness of the arguments used to > defend the accused rapist/child molester. To fight it on the basis > that the alleged offense is relatively minor seems really stupid and > self defeating. It is that, but I don't think anyone has argued that. The argument has nothing to do with minimizing Polanski's conduct, which certainly was foolish and self- indulgent and expressive of a foolish and ...

Document Size:	5835
Author:	Shane Mage
Date:	Tue Sep 29 21:37:58 PDT 2009

88 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

On Tue, 29 Sep 2009, Jordan Hayes wrote: > That's the point: this isn't about whether Polanski had sex with a 13 > year old girl. But that's what you seem to want to make it about. Um, yeah, me too. What do you think it's about? And not sex, rape. It's a different thing. Michael

Document Size:	4681
Author:	Michael Pollak
Date:	Tue Sep 29 21:32:15 PDT 2009

89 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Shane Mage <shmage at pipeline.com> wrote: > Imagined dialogue between an experienced, sympathetic, adult prosecutor with > a thirteen year old aspiring model whose mother has called the cops when > informed that her daughter had had sex with a rich movie director. Totally > fictional. Sure, maybe she's lying, but we have procedures for making that determination. There may be other evidence (the testimony of the woman who was there when Polans ...

Document Size:	6752
Author:	WD
Date:	Tue Sep 29 21:22:12 PDT 2009

90 [lbo-talk] Polanski -- rank: 773

On 30 sept. 2009, at 12:58, Bill Bartlett wrote: > Pretty unlikely a person could get a fair trial in that atmosphere. > You could hardly blame the accused from fleeing when his liberty is > ransom to a public circus. No civilised legal system would extradite > a person to a jurisdiction where such a mockery of a legal system > prevailed. (Is this the reason he hasn't been extradited? I am only > guessing.) According to that: http://www.maitre-eolas.fr/post/2009/09/29/Quelques- ...

Document Size:	5815
Author:	JC Helary
Date:	Tue Sep 29 21:13:49 PDT 2009