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16 [lbo-talk] Contemporary forms of female self-objectification -- rank: 1000

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005, Mike Ballard wrote: > From what I can determine, makeup, jewelry and so on--fashion in other > words--has been with the human race since at least the dawn of class society. I can't resist. This is one of my favorite passages from Carlyle's _Sartor Resartus_ from 1831. (This is supposed to be Carlyle explaining for English readers the ideas the late great and by him discovered German Professor Teufelsdroeckh, whose masterwork was "The Philosophy of Clothes." ...

Document Size:	6714
Author:	Michael Pollak
Date:	Sun Sep 18 22:27:52 PDT 2005

17 [lbo-talk] Contemporary forms of female self-objectification -- rank: 1000

On Sunday, September 18, 2005 7:03 PM [PDT], Catherine Driscoll <catherine.driscoll at arts.usyd.edu.au> wrote: > I just read this whole thread, and I'm kind of appalled. > Me too, for a variety of reasons, *some* of which you elaborated upon. > and doesn't taste good Well? It doesn't. And the stuff that is supposed to taste good tastes even worse. Leigh Send more tourists... The last ones were delicious! [response to Doug's witty reparte': "That's not the part you're suppose ...

Document Size:	5646
Author:	Leigh Meyers
Date:	Sun Sep 18 22:13:19 PDT 2005

18 [lbo-talk] Re: Contemporary forms of female self-objectification -- rank: 1000

I've been reading over the posts to this thread and I detect three themes, intermingling in various ways. 1. Men and women seek to make themselves attractive to the opposite sex in "artificial" ways. 2. What is "attractive" varies with social and cultural norms. 3. There is a current "pornification of every day styles;" that is, women are getting their standards of behavior and attractiveness from the porn industry....and this has some special historical significanc ...

Document Size:	11650
Author:	joanna
Date:	Sun Sep 18 22:11:41 PDT 2005

19 [lbo-talk] Contemporary forms of female self-objectification -- rank: 1000

Catherine, > That's not what I said. I said my students would be thrilled to read the group's rules for girls' behaviour I'd have to review the thread to be sure, but you may have misread much of what was being said. I'm not sure anyone was trying to prescribe female behavior, other than the discussion of girls-gone-wild-style activity. > The thing is, there are complicated and multiple reasons why girls might behave in ways this author disparages, and none of them are adequately engaged b ...

Document Size:	5470
Author:	John Adams
Date:	Sun Sep 18 21:55:38 PDT 2005

20 [lbo-talk] Contemporary forms of female self-objectification -- rank: 1000

Dear Ravi, > actually, i must append to that by confessing that my post, appearances > notwithstanding, was aimed at eliciting some form of non-serious > response or emotion. i submit myself for a spanking, albeit nothing too > aggressive! > > now, how about male strip clubs? what of them? i mean, do these guys > shave their arses? I can't say that I care, but I imagine shaving happens, yes. The mainstream aesthetic tends away from hairy arses, and to the best of my knowledg ...

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Author:	Catherine Driscoll
Date:	Sun Sep 18 21:06:01 PDT 2005

21 [lbo-talk] Contemporary forms of female self-objectification -- rank: 1000

Dear B, > However, teaching a class on something is not > necessarily proof that one is an authority in a > meaningful way on a particular subject: If I could > list all the right-wing teachers I've had, on every > subject from History to even English (I'll never > forget the time my 1301 Intro to English class was > opened with an example of an argumentative essay that > was about howcommunism is flawed -- or when a teacher > told me CNN stands for "Communist New ...

Document Size:	6221
Author:	Catherine Driscoll
Date:	Sun Sep 18 20:55:53 PDT 2005

22 [lbo-talk] Contemporary forms of female self-objectification -- rank: 1000

Doug Henwood wrote: > >I don't get what's wrong with makeup. I think many men could do with paying >a lot more attention to their physical appearance, in fact. It seems that >one of the aspects of hetero male privilege is a complete lack of attention >to appearance; straight guys can get away with a lot, which I think is a >reflection of their dominance. Esp white guys. > I thought that upper-middle class men pay a lot of attention to their real physical appearance. If you` ...

Document Size:	6111
Author:	Mark S
Date:	Sun Sep 18 20:48:07 PDT 2005

23 [lbo-talk] Contemporary forms of female self-objectification -- rank: 1000

Just the other day (18/9/05 10:38 pm), B. opined: > Catherine Driscoll wrote: > > "I just read this whole thread, and I'm kind of > appalled. It's nice to know the guys can still get > together and debate how women should respond to > dominant and changing discourses on sex, gender and > femininity." > > I think most of the men on here weighed in in good > faith, ... > actually, i must append to that by confessing that my post, appearances notwithstandi ...

Document Size:	5697
Author:	ravi
Date:	Sun Sep 18 19:57:39 PDT 2005

24 [lbo-talk] Contemporary forms of female self-objectification -- rank: 1000

Catherine Driscoll wrote: "I just read this whole thread, and I'm kind of appalled. It's nice to know the guys can still get together and debate how women should respond to dominant and changing discourses on sex, gender and femininity." I think most of the men on here weighed in in good faith, knowing there were plenty of women that would either correct them if they were wrong, or respond with their own opinions. I don't think anyone should feel like their sex dis-includes them from t ...

Document Size:	5929
Author:	B.
Date:	Sun Sep 18 19:38:25 PDT 2005

25 [lbo-talk] Contemporary forms of female self-objectification -- rank: 1000

Doug wrote: I don't get what's wrong with makeup. I think many men could do with paying a lot more attention to their physical appearance, in fact. It seems that one of the aspects of hetero male privilege is a complete lack of attention to appearance; straight guys can get away with a lot, which I think is a reflection of their dominance. Esp white guys. Gossip bulletin: Amy Goodman is now wearing makeup. ****************** >From what I can determine, makeup, jewelry and so on--fashion in ot ...

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Author:	Mike Ballard
Date:	Sun Sep 18 19:24:11 PDT 2005

26 [lbo-talk] Contemporary forms of female self-objectification -- rank: 1000

I just read this whole thread, and I'm kind of appalled. It's nice to know the guys can still get together and debate how women should respond to dominant and changing discourses on sex, gender and femininity. Thanks for that, boys, I was naturally at a loss to know where I should be going. So I read the snippet from the review first, and thought perhaps I should buy this book, but then subsequent elaborations have suggested that it's another highly selective over-reaching patronising polemic on ...

Document Size:	6131
Author:	Catherine Driscoll
Date:	Sun Sep 18 19:03:40 PDT 2005

27 [lbo-talk] Re: Contemporary forms of female self-objectification -- rank: 1000

Just the other day (18/9/05 1:00 pm), Doug Henwood opined: > >> Often, Dworkin was offering lurid, excruciatingly precise accounts of >> something sexually hideous, as in this description of her uncle: "He >> stuck his penis down the throats of at least two of his children when >> they were infants-I assume to elicit the involuntary sucking >> response." Another writer might simply have called him a child molester. > i apologize for diluting the arti ...

Document Size:	5549
Author:	ravi
Date:	Sun Sep 18 18:58:40 PDT 2005

28 [lbo-talk] Contemporary forms of female self-objectification -- rank: 1000

The school of "do-me" feminism is interesting. For ex., I have gotten into a debate or two with members of the RCP who seem to insist almost any and all hetero relations between males and females in our current society are inherently sexist and coercive. But a lot of the gals who grew up post-riot grrrl, post-Bikini Kill, etc., have a very bemused, ironic detachment to a lot of the sexist culture that preceded them. To wit: the fact that my gf, a HUGE fan of Bikini Kill, riot grrrl, an ...

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Author:	B.
Date:	Sun Sep 18 17:04:31 PDT 2005

29 [lbo-talk] Contemporary forms of female self-objectification -- rank: 1000

Marvin Gandall wrote: > ------------------------- > Thanks. BTW, I agree it's important, as our old elementary school report > cards used to put it (archaically), to be "neat in person and dress". We > just like the natural look better on both women and men, especially as > we age. But the use of cosmetics is just a matter of personal > preference, and the issue, such as it is, pales in comparison (no pun > intended) to the truly disturbing ones raised by Levy. > ...

Document Size:	6415
Author:	Miles Jackson
Date:	Sun Sep 18 17:23:38 PDT 2005

30 [lbo-talk] Contemporary forms of female self-objectification -- rank: 1000

Doug: > I don't get what's wrong with makeup. I think many men could do with > paying a lot more attention to their physical appearance, in fact. It > seems that one of the aspects of hetero male privilege is a complete lack > of attention to appearance; straight guys can get away with a lot, which I > think is a reflection of their dominance. Esp white guys. > > Gossip bulletin: Amy Goodman is now wearing makeup. > >>BTW, could you again provide the url of the radi ...

Document Size:	6179
Author:	Marvin Gandall
Date:	Sun Sep 18 11:52:28 PDT 2005