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1 [lbo-talk] Contemporary forms of female self-objectification -- rank: 1000

(The psychological emanicpation of women has lagged their social and economic advances, argues a new book by Ariel Levy of New York magazine) 'Female Chauvinist Pigs': Girls Gone Wild Reviewed by JENNIFER EGAN New York Times September 18, 2005 By Reading "Female Chauvinist Pigs," Ariel Levy's lively polemic, gave me an epiphany of sorts. Finally, a coherent interpretation of an array of phenomena I'd puzzled over in recent years: the way Paris Hilton's leaked sex tapes seemed only to e ...

Document Size:	10708
Author:	Marvin Gandall
Date:	Sat Sep 17 04:17:23 PDT 2005

2 [lbo-talk] Contemporary forms of female self-objectification -- rank: 1000

>What are stereotypical examples of Black men as puritans and sexless ? Are there any? Isn't it just the opposite? Doug ^^^ I'm thinking that when generalizations are made about American sexual representations , race throws a kind of kink into the "curves". So that" that old American pairing of puritanism and prurience ... veer(ing) from extreme to extreme, Billy Graham/Hugh Hefner, Pat Robertson/Jenna Jameson " has a subpart where Black men don't veer from extreme to extr ...

Document Size:	5550
Author:	Charles Brown
Date:	Tue Sep 20 09:09:23 PDT 2005

3 [lbo-talk] Contemporary forms of female self-objectification -- rank: 1000

Charles Brown wrote: >It does not matter men will be attracted to women no matter >what. Which is just what Ariel Levy said. We've gone full circle. Doug

Document Size:	4825
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Mon Sep 19 12:03:53 PDT 2005

4 [lbo-talk] Contemporary forms of female self-objectification -- rank: 1000

Comment from Tamika: Wow! I read all the response emails. Frankly I think that these people read to much into things. Hopefully a person would wear her hair a certain way, wear make-up or even shave her vagina only based on what she wants. Unfortunately society does dictate peoples actions. Hell, I will go from long fake hair with make-up to a short afro with no make up. And I still attract men. It does not matter men will be attracted to women no matter what. So I say just do what makes ...

Document Size:	5257
Author:	Charles Brown
Date:	Mon Sep 19 11:19:47 PDT 2005

5 [lbo-talk] Contemporary forms of female self-objectification -- rank: 1000

Doug: > So what do you make of what Levy calls the "raunch culture" - women > flashing their tits for Girls Gone Wild, the popularization of porn > stars and strippers as role models for women, the sexualization of > 11-year-old girls, etc. Does it exist? Does it matter? Should we care? > > When I interviewed her, I asked her if she thought it was yet another > version of that old American pairing of puritanism and prurience - we > veer from extreme to extreme, ...

Document Size:	6102
Author:	Wojtek Sokolowski
Date:	Mon Sep 19 10:58:07 PDT 2005

6 [lbo-talk] Contemporary forms of female self-objectification -- rank: 1000

Doug Henwood wrote: > Charles Brown wrote: > >> What are stereotypical examples of Black men as puritans and sexless ? > Bill Cosby? Joanna

Document Size:	4891
Author:	joanna
Date:	Mon Sep 19 11:01:26 PDT 2005

7 [lbo-talk] Contemporary forms of female self-objectification -- rank: 1000

Charles Brown asks: > What are stereotypical examples of Black men as puritans and > sexless ? The "Sambo" and especially the "Tom" stereotypes, loyal and happy servants, were definitely sexless if not puritanical. Contrast this with the "coon" or especially the "Mandingo" stereotype, of black men who didn't know their place and were sexually "threatening." - - - - - - - - - - John Lacny http://www.johnlacny.com Tell no lies, claim no easy ...

Document Size:	5258
Author:	John Lacny
Date:	Mon Sep 19 10:51:18 PDT 2005

8 [lbo-talk] Contemporary forms of female self-objectification -- rank: 1000

From: Doug Henwood <dhenwood at panix.com> >Charles Brown wrote: >>What are stereotypical examples of Black men as puritans and sexless ? >Are there any? Isn't it just the opposite? I think that was his point. That said, see Hope Coulter's first novel, _The Errand of the Eye_, and Robert Heinlein's worst (some say), _I Will Fear No Evil_.

Document Size:	5241
Author:	John Adams
Date:	Mon Sep 19 10:35:56 PDT 2005

9 [lbo-talk] Contemporary forms of female self-objectification -- rank: 1000

Charles Brown wrote: >What are stereotypical examples of Black men as puritans and sexless ? Are there any? Isn't it just the opposite? Doug

Document Size:	4882
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Mon Sep 19 10:08:29 PDT 2005

10 [lbo-talk] Contemporary forms of female self-objectification -- rank: 1000

>From: Doug Henwood <dhenwood at panix.com> > >... that old American pairing of puritanism and prurience - we veer from >extreme to extreme, Billy Graham/Hugh Hefner I think it's more a matter of veering from veneer to veneer -- America famously being the land of hucksters of every description. E.g., you yourself share Melville's cynical view of the saintly Emerson as being a mere "confidence-man," Mark Winsome. Billy and Hugh may have different lines, but they're t ...

Document Size:	5425
Author:	Carl Remick
Date:	Mon Sep 19 09:03:42 PDT 2005

11 [lbo-talk] Contemporary forms of female self-objectification -- rank: 1000

When I interviewed her, I asked her if she thought it was yet another version of that old American pairing of puritanism and prurience - we veer from extreme to extreme, Billy Graham/Hugh Hefner, Pat Robertson/Jenna Jameson. She agreed. Doug ^^^^ CB: How does race intersex with sex in this American thing ? Are racy novels about sex or about race ? What are stereotypical examples of Black men as puritans and sexless ?

Document Size:	5118
Author:	Charles Brown
Date:	Mon Sep 19 08:58:44 PDT 2005

12 [lbo-talk] Re: Contemporary forms of female self-objectification -- rank: 1000

............... The truth is that intimacy is hard and scary and that we're so emptied out and exhausted at the end of the day that when we finally come together, we can only trade these cultural tokens. Thus, being sexual never gets any farther (or less safe) than a complicated manipulation of sexual images (it would too much to call it play) and no one ever loses control. Joanna *********************** Great insights, Joanna! It's posts like this that make my day. Cheers, Mike B) ************* ...

Document Size:	5713
Author:	Mike Ballard
Date:	Mon Sep 19 06:38:18 PDT 2005

13 [lbo-talk] Contemporary forms of female self-objectification -- rank: 1000

Catherine Driscoll wrote: >So I read the snippet from the review first, and thought perhaps I should buy >this book, but then subsequent elaborations have suggested that it's another >highly selective over-reaching patronising polemic on 'girls today' >and frankly >I've read more than enough of those. So what do you make of what Levy calls the "raunch culture" - women flashing their tits for Girls Gone Wild, the popularization of porn stars and strippers as role models f ...

Document Size:	5637
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Mon Sep 19 06:13:13 PDT 2005

14 [lbo-talk] Contemporary forms of female self-objectification -- rank: 1000

From: Catherine Driscoll <catherine.driscoll at arts.usyd.edu.au> > > I'd have to review the thread to be sure, but you may have misread much of > > what was being said. I'm not sure anyone was trying to prescribe female > > behavior, other than the discussion of girls-gone-wild-style activity. > What on earth makes you think you or anyone here should prescribe against > "girls-gone-wild-style activity". That's exactly what I meant. I don't. I was agreeing ...

Document Size:	6377
Author:	John Adams
Date:	Mon Sep 19 05:48:17 PDT 2005

15 [lbo-talk] Contemporary forms of female self-objectification -- rank: 1000

Dear John Adams, > I'd have to review the thread to be sure, but you may have misread much of > what was being said. I'm not sure anyone was trying to prescribe female > behavior, other than the discussion of girls-gone-wild-style activity. What on earth makes you think you or anyone here should prescribe against "girls-gone-wild-style activity". That's exactly what I meant. I have no reason, based on what I've read here, to think those girls' reasons are unacceptable in some ...

Document Size:	5745
Author:	Catherine Driscoll
Date:	Sun Sep 18 22:33:16 PDT 2005