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91 [lbo-talk] in which lbo-talk defends 'the sopranos' -- rank: 744

----- Original Message ----- From: "Carrol Cox" <cbcox at ilstu.edu> I think I want to go way backwards on this sub-thread. I find offensive all claims that the subjective states of _some_ people are inferior to the subjective states of _other_ people. This is a profoundly reactionary tendency going back ...

Document Size:	5197
Author:	Eubulides
Date:	Wed Oct 6 11:32:46 PDT 2004

92 [lbo-talk] in which lbo-talk defends 'the sopranos' -- rank: 744

Carrol Cox wrote: > I think I want to go way backwards on this sub-thread. I find offensive > all claims that the subjective states of _some_ people are inferior to > the subjective states of _other_ people. This is a profoundly > reactionary tendency going back I suppose (like most reactionary > tendencies) to ...

Document Size:	5885
Author:	Ted Winslow
Date:	Wed Oct 6 11:21:24 PDT 2004

93 [lbo-talk] in which lbo-talk defends 'the sopranos' -- rank: 744

Eubulides wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "joanna bujes" <jbujes at covad.net> > > I'd go one further and say that the "greatest pleasure" is something > that goes beyond pleasure, beyond the pleasure/pain/numb complex of > feeling. This state, which is beyond pleasure/pain is referred to by > many as joy and ...

Document Size:	6693
Author:	Carrol Cox
Date:	Wed Oct 6 11:02:09 PDT 2004

94 [lbo-talk] key to the Sopranos! -- rank: 744

joyce brothers wrote: >Whatever. I find it amusing that this is >a big subject here. And no, I have not read any of >the posts. It's a tv show. Reporter to Muhammad Ali: "Do you know where Vietnam is? Ali: "Sure I do, it's on tv."

Document Size:	4875
Author:	Dennis Claxton
Date:	Sat Jun 16 14:09:37 PDT 2007

95 [lbo-talk] in which lbo-talk defends 'the sopranos' -- rank: 744

Justin: > My only point is that its bad political content is > entirely irrelevant to its status as good or bad art. > Whether it is good art turns on its subtlety, > complexity, emotional power and range, aesthetic > beauty in terms of mastery of the medium, etc. All of > these are consistent with ...

Document Size:	6680
Author:	Wojtek Sokolowski
Date:	Wed Oct 6 09:40:11 PDT 2004

96 [lbo-talk] in which lbo-talk defends 'the sopranos' -- rank: 744

----- Original Message ----- From: "joanna bujes" <jbujes at covad.net> I'd go one further and say that the "greatest pleasure" is something that goes beyond pleasure, beyond the pleasure/pain/numb complex of feeling. This state, which is beyond pleasure/pain is referred to by many as joy and it ...

Document Size:	5721
Author:	Eubulides
Date:	Wed Oct 6 09:30:34 PDT 2004

97 [lbo-talk] in which lbo-talk defends 'the sopranos' -- rank: 744

> You don't have to respond to art and culture, Wojtek. But don't try to > deny its pleasures to the rest of us. I, for one, rather enjoy ultra- > violence, macho fantasy etc. James, what you and your television do in your bedroom is really your private business, provided ...

Document Size:	5094
Author:	Wojtek Sokolowski
Date:	Wed Oct 6 09:19:29 PDT 2004

98 [lbo-talk] in which lbo-talk defends 'the sopranos' -- rank: 744

james at communistbanker.com wrote: >It's not moralistic. It shows, by illuminating the basis of feelings, >the path to great feelings, feelings of the greatest pleasure and >happiness. Satisfaction of the desire to inflict suffering on others >can produce pleasure, but it can't produce the greatest pleasure. This >is ...

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Author:	joanna bujes
Date:	Wed Oct 6 09:17:57 PDT 2004

99 [lbo-talk] in which lbo-talk defends 'the sopranos' -- rank: 744

Oh, I don't dispute that great art can be politically regressive and have bad effects. Take the Illiad --a celebration of violence, hierarchy, brutality, lust for revenge and renoun, macho physical bravado, denigration of women -- it has almost no progressive content. By mining it here and there you can see ...

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Author:	andie nachgeborenen
Date:	Wed Oct 6 08:38:50 PDT 2004

100 [lbo-talk] in which lbo-talk defends 'the sopranos' -- rank: 744

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Document Size:	4885
Author:	james at communistbanker.com
Date:	Wed Oct 6 08:37:39 PDT 2004

101 [lbo-talk] in which lbo-talk defends 'the sopranos' -- rank: 744

Ted Winslow wrote: > > Justin wrote: > > > The Divine Comedy is based in > > premises most of us reject. > > " [clip] And when there are more souls above who love, > there's more to love well there, and they love more, > and mirror-like, each soul reflects the other." > Dante, The Divine Comedy [Mandelbaum translation ...

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Author:	Carrol Cox
Date:	Wed Oct 6 08:29:34 PDT 2004

102 [lbo-talk] in which lbo-talk defends 'the sopranos' -- rank: 744

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Author:	james at communistbanker.com
Date:	Wed Oct 6 08:29:34 PDT 2004

103 [lbo-talk] in which lbo-talk defends 'the sopranos' -- rank: 744

>By "didactic" I mean "written in order to provide >moral instruction." You're right about the SoS, >assuming we take it as a love poem and not as an >allegory of the relationship between man and >God/Church. > It's possible, gasp, to take it as both. In the fuzzy ...

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Author:	joanna bujes
Date:	Wed Oct 6 08:30:59 PDT 2004

104 [lbo-talk] in which lbo-talk defends 'the sopranos' -- rank: 744

Justin wrote: > Which is like reading the point of > Hamlet as saying Revenge is Bad. It makes this point by showing the basis of the desire for vengeance in Hamlet's character, i.e. it's insightful. This contrasts, say, with Foucault who feels that vengeance is good, but lacks insight ...

Document Size:	5378
Author:	Ted Winslow
Date:	Wed Oct 6 08:20:13 PDT 2004

105 [lbo-talk] in which lbo-talk defends 'the sopranos' -- rank: 744

Justin: > You don't get it. What's wrong, artistically, with a > show that glorifies gangsterism? Why do you adopt this What's wrong? It is a macho fantasy, a replay of the myth of the strict father which, according to the cognitive linguist George Lakoff, (http://www.wwcd.org/issues ...

Document Size:	7202
Author:	Wojtek Sokolowski
Date:	Wed Oct 6 08:08:50 PDT 2004