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181 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

It's worth separating out "slavery was the cause of the war" from "Northern moral opposition to slavery was the cause of the war." The former does not require the latter. On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 1:45 PM, SA <s11131978 at gmail.com> wrote: > Joseph Catron wrote: > > It seems ...

Document Size:	5864
Author:	Matthias Wasser
Date:	Thu Apr 8 10:54:11 PDT 2010

182 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

Joseph Catron wrote: > It seems pretty obvious to me that the Union chose war for all the > predictable economic reasons (tariffs, etc.) and used abolitionism - which > took on a life of its own - to rally the proles. It would be a strange war, > indeed, in which the bourgeoisie actually came out ...

Document Size:	5342
Author:	SA
Date:	Thu Apr 8 10:45:16 PDT 2010

183 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

On Apr 8, 2010, at 1:10 PM, SA wrote: > But the point is that for the majority of the South's population, it > wasn't one country. It was one group of states attacking another > group of states. It was only called a Civil War in the North. Well of ...

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Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Thu Apr 8 10:32:04 PDT 2010

184 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 12:49 PM, James Heartfield < Heartfield at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: But slavery was abolished. So it wasn't just propaganda. How long do you imagine it might have lasted without military conflict? Economic forces sufficed to destroy it in most of the hemisphere pretty ...

Document Size:	6312
Author:	Joseph Catron
Date:	Thu Apr 8 10:25:09 PDT 2010

185 [lbo-talk] Fwd: Re: Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

At 04:15 AM 4/8/2010, Joseph Catron wrote: >On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 3:46 AM, Chris Doss <lookoverhere1 at yahoo.com> wrote: > >It would not be hard at all to justify support for the war by appeal to Marx > > and Engels. They supported lots of wars by ...

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Author:	shag carpet bomb
Date:	Thu Apr 8 04:04:15 PDT 2010

186 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

I would say that that is an understatement. Bakunin thought that Marx and Engels (and the German Social Democratic movement and pan-Germanism in general) were basically apologists for German Empire. ----- Original Message ---- From: James Heartfield <Heartfield at blueyonder.co.uk> I don't know Bakunin's writing except through Marx ...

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Author:	Chris Doss
Date:	Thu Apr 8 03:57:53 PDT 2010

187 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

The way I see it, Marx was not interested in war as such, broadly he drew his moral preferences from what was in the interests of the development of society (which he saw as conflictual). His judgement was, roughly, that the wars of national unification up until 1870 were a net ...

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Author:	James Heartfield
Date:	Thu Apr 8 03:26:14 PDT 2010

188 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

I don't know anything about that, but intuitively -- that is, based entirely on what you write here -- it seems that here we are talking about something that divides the working class inside a capitalist society (Britain) and by extension wars between capitalist nations (such as WWI), and so is not ...

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Author:	Chris Doss
Date:	Thu Apr 8 02:48:42 PDT 2010

189 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

'It would not be hard at all to justify support for the war by appeal to Marx and Engels. They supported lots of wars by more advanced (according to their undertanding of advanced) nations against less advanced ones because of their supposed civilizing nature.' Yes, it is true that Marx ...

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Author:	James Heartfield
Date:	Thu Apr 8 02:35:37 PDT 2010

190 [lbo-talk] Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

Chris Cutrone writes: 'Is the Taliban/al-Qaeda opposition to the U.S. "anticapitalist" (or "anti-imperialist," in the sense of Lenin, Luxemburg and Trotsky's anti-imperialism)? We think not. But this doesn't mean that the U.S. govt. is progressive!' I agree with that. But it still says ...

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Author:	James Heartfield
Date:	Thu Apr 8 02:08:42 PDT 2010

191 [lbo-talk] Fwd: Re: Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

I haven't actually read those posts or anything Marx and Engels wrote on the Civil War, but there is a reason that Bakunin considered Marx and Engels to be have concocted a new imperialist ideology. I just read his "The German Empire and Social Revoution," or whatever it's called ...

Document Size:	6027
Author:	Chris Doss
Date:	Thu Apr 8 01:33:38 PDT 2010

192 [lbo-talk] Fwd: Re: Platypus: what we are, what we do, and why -- rank: 773

On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 3:46 AM, Chris Doss <lookoverhere1 at yahoo.com> wrote: It would not be hard at all to justify support for the war by appeal to Marx > and Engels. They supported lots of wars by more advanced (according to their > undertanding of advanced) nations against ...

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Author:	Joseph Catron
Date:	Thu Apr 8 01:15:31 PDT 2010

193 [lbo-talk] Mitchel's interview with two Platypus organizers -- rank: 773

Nope. We have to use the word "theory" and circumscribe it in some way or substitute a description for any term. "The principles relevant to the organizing of working-class resistance to Czarist autocracy in Russia shortly after 1900, with suggestions as to the best organization of a party under these ...

Document Size:	6977
Author:	Carrol Cox
Date:	Tue Apr 6 20:01:58 PDT 2010

194 [lbo-talk] Mitchel's interview with two Platypus organizers -- rank: 773

"The Thinking of Party Organization" ----- Original Message ---- And "Thought of Party Organization" is unintelligible.

Document Size:	4877
Author:	Chris Doss
Date:	Tue Apr 6 19:44:44 PDT 2010

195 [lbo-talk] Mitchel's interview with two Platypus organizers -- rank: 773

Chris Doss wrote: > > Oddly enough, the English language also makes possible a useful distinction between "Thought" and > "Theory." No. You can't say Newton's thought of gravity. "Thoery" is of course acceptable there;, but it is _not_ really acceptable in Theory of Party Organization. And "Thought of Party Organization" is ...

Document Size:	5530
Author:	Carrol Cox
Date:	Tue Apr 6 19:15:36 PDT 2010