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916 coerced treatment -- rank: 1000

LeoCasey at aol.com wrote: > > This is too quick and facile an explanation, in my view. Disabled folks may > be more unproductive, but how does it follow that the most efficacious way > of handling unproductiveness, from a capitalist point of view, is > confinement. What's wrong with having individual family units bear the cost > of sustaining the unproductive? In some ways it is even more of a cost > effective approach, since it places the economic burden on the individual ...

Document Size:	16807
Author:	Marta Russell
Date:	Fri Jun 15 20:37:57 PDT 2001

917 coerced treatment -- rank: 1000

Chuck Grimes wrote: > > Anyway gotta go. Marta, please help explain this for the list. Since I > have to go now. Its an pivotal political transistion that has to be > made...and isn't just restricted to movements around disability. > Damn Chuck, you explained it great, I don't need to add anything. Marta

Document Size:	4655
Author:	Marta Russell
Date:	Fri Jun 15 16:52:08 PDT 2001

918 coerced treatment -- rank: 1000

Yoshie Furuhashi wrote: > > >But it is the medical profession who commit disabled persons to these > >institutions and which has been complicit in organizing the > >segreation! You cannot separate them. > > > >Marta > > So, where do you go from here? Give up on medicine? Or reform it? > If the latter, criticisms had better be concrete & discriminating -- > instead of abstract & all-encompassing -- with suggestions for better > practices. ...

Document Size:	8128
Author:	Marta Russell
Date:	Fri Jun 15 10:09:32 PDT 2001

919 coerced treatment -- rank: 1000

Carrol Cox wrote: > > > I agree with what I think you mean but not quite with what you say here. > As your subsequent remarks make clear, in so far as disabled individuals > are segregated, there is no way (or little way) in which they can > develop that strength. Your work in the disabled rights movement (and > that movement as a whole) is, I take it, an attempt to develop a > collective power in which individual disabled people can then share and > exemplify. Correct ...

Document Size:	7238
Author:	Marta Russell
Date:	Fri Jun 15 09:39:11 PDT 2001

920 Institutional abuse revisted -- rank: 1000

I'm excerpting this AP paragraph because there was earlier question on LBO about abuse of disabled persons. "In 107 cases reviewed by the Globe, the prime suspects were usually taxpayer-funded caretakers such as nurses, counselors, and orderlies, and more than half the cases involved sex crimes." Marta Prosecutions rare for disabled crime victims By Associated Press, 6/10/2001 15:46 BOSTON (AP) Hundreds of reported rapes, beatings and robberies of people with disabilities have resulted ...

Document Size:	8803
Author:	Marta Russell
Date:	Thu Jun 14 18:39:33 PDT 2001

921 coerced treatment -- rank: 1000

Gordon Fitch wrote: > > > If the Left is the party of freedom and equality, and the > Right the party of power, authority, social status, private > wealth, hierarchical order and so on, then the concept of the > autonomous individual is not an inroad of the Right on the > Left but rather a rightist simulacrum which the authoritarian > corruption of the Left gives space to and even advertises. > A gate opens in two directions, and the ideas of Thomas > Szasz could be ...

Document Size:	5576
Author:	Marta Russell
Date:	Thu Jun 14 15:50:07 PDT 2001

922 coerced treatment -- rank: 1000

Yoshie Furuhashi wrote: > > Marta: > > The plans by the Soros Institute? I haven't heard of them. Any further info? > > Yoshie I am not a big fan of Soros but the Center on Crime communities & Culture (a part of the Open Society) have tackled the issue of incarceration of the mentally ill and have a community oriented mental health care plan. Who on the left is doing that? http://www.soros.org/crime/ Marta

Document Size:	4824
Author:	Marta Russell
Date:	Thu Jun 14 15:39:31 PDT 2001

923 coerced treatment -- rank: 1000

Christopher Rhoades D˙kema wrote: > > What I meant to criticize is the tendency towards a political stance that gives > primary emphasis to the supposedly self-actualizing individual. This can be one of > the points at which the right makes inroads on the left. Thomas Szasz is a gross > example. > We are agreed on this. Re atomistic individualism "The impetous for the development of a rights theory was the need to find a basis for reconciling opponents within a disintegr ...

Document Size:	5714
Author:	Marta Russell
Date:	Thu Jun 14 15:30:07 PDT 2001

924 coerced treatment -- rank: 1000

Christopher Rhoades D˙kema wrote: > > The anti-therapeutic civil libertarian stance often seems to reduce to liberal > individualism. As my next-to-last post should make clear, I am as much of a > critic of psychiatry as any, but the notion that people with addictions, > significant psychiatric illness, character disorders, etc., are potentially > "informed consumers" in the same way as consumers of toasters is absurd. > There you go again squeezing everything into ...

Document Size:	5469
Author:	Marta Russell
Date:	Thu Jun 14 09:54:27 PDT 2001

925 Rob Schaap on Foucault -- rank: 1000

I have already discussed this with Justin off list but the sentence certainly does allude to a characterization of a person -- "any Marxist" is "blind" if they are optimistic. The insinuation is that blind persons are incompetent. That is not the same thing as a blind alley. Go back and do a search for Doyle Sayler in the LBO archives, I think he explained this better than I have the time to do here. As for watching language -- what movement has not. Blacks certainly correct ...

Document Size:	6128
Author:	Marta Russell
Date:	Wed Jun 13 17:51:36 PDT 2001

926 coerced treatment -- rank: 1000

Yoshie Furuhashi wrote: > > >I am overposting here -- this will be my last one for the day. > > > >Desegregation -- that means quit confining disabled persons to > >institutions and provide the option for one to live in the community > >like nondisabled people do for starters. Some nondisabled persons > >live with family, some live with friends and some live alone. > > > >Segregation is the historical reality for disabled persons, and not > ...

Document Size:	5715
Author:	Marta Russell
Date:	Wed Jun 13 14:51:32 PDT 2001

927 coerced treatment -- rank: 1000

Yoshie Furuhashi wrote: > > What's the practical alternative to "the for-profit nursing home > industry, the adult 'care' industry, the home 'care' industry, state > institutions for the deaf, the blind and the 'incurables'"? Since > you appear to be arguing against both state & corporate institutions > (as well as anything in-between), what is left? Families? Friends? > Living alone? > I am overposting here -- this will be my last one for the day. Desegr ...

Document Size:	5302
Author:	Marta Russell
Date:	Wed Jun 13 13:43:46 PDT 2001

928 coerced treatment -- rank: 1000

Ian Murray wrote: > > ========== > The current pharmaco-therapeutic regime exists for the sake of workers > and managers of "mental" institutions, which in turn exist for > Capital; that they might benefit patients is epiphenomenal, given our > immense ignorance of our own brains. > > Ian This is my sense of it too -- having watched the for-profit nursing home industry, the adult "care" industry, the home "care" industry, state institutions f ...

Document Size:	5283
Author:	Marta Russell
Date:	Wed Jun 13 10:39:55 PDT 2001

929 coerced treatment -- rank: 1000

Christopher, Thanks for your post. I am not anti-medicine. I take some meds myself for high blood pressure, and a few other things. Nor do I believe that "all individuals are self-actualizing and clear in advancing their own interest all of the time" but if you were subjected to a medication that was giving you harmful side effects would you say "I can't advance my own interest because not everyone can, so therefore I will continue to take this harmful drug?" Of course not ...

Document Size:	6557
Author:	Marta Russell
Date:	Wed Jun 13 10:31:33 PDT 2001

930 Rob Schaap on Foucault -- rank: 1000

Justin Schwartz wrote: > any Marxist who is optimistic in this day and age is > blind or fanatical. --jks > > > Justin, I know you said this without thinking. we have had discussions before about how aligning negative characteristics with a disability is not accurate or cool. Blind people are not ignorant or stupid people who refuse to look at issues. Marta

Document Size:	4767
Author:	Marta Russell
Date:	Wed Jun 13 09:54:24 PDT 2001