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2476 yoshie vs. yoshie (was Re: whatdoeschaz want?) -- rank: 1000
In message <001701beef65$c4a2ede0$eae13ecb at rcollins>, rc-am <rcollins at netlink.com.au> writes > who or what is posited as the vehicle of socialist planning? is >it the state? is it, moreover, given your adherence to the notion of >'national sovereignty', the nation-state? the rest is just a wide and >tedious detour around this issue. I'd suggest, no, clearly, the state, being itself an expression of alienated human relations, could hardly be an instrument of th ...
Document Size: 6100
Author: Jim heartfield
Date: Thu Aug 26 06:13:19 PDT 1999
2477 Commentary Goes After Said -- rank: 1000
In message <l0302090ab3e71030a775@[216.26.6.68]>, CounterPunch <sitka at teleport.com> writes > [here they are...going after Said the way they did Rigoberta M.--jsc] I think the difference is that Edward Said did not falsify his life story, whilst, Rigoberta Menchu admits that she did (or more properly that Elizabeth Burgos Debray did). 'It ['I Rogoberta Menchu] is not my life story'. Notably, Said's defenders are not descending to the absurd 'good lie' position, because they d ...
Document Size: 5023
Author: Jim heartfield
Date: Thu Aug 26 07:31:47 PDT 1999
2478 replies to Rakesh, Wojtek, Charles, Chris Anarchism / Marxism debates -- rank: 1000
Roger's point 1. (that living standards are rising) simply contradicts his point 6. and 7. (that workers living standards are below their living standards). The contradiction that assumes a formal existence in Roger's thinking, is a real contradiction: that between use value and exchange value. Roger finds it difficult to believe that the two can move in opposite directions (when in fact that's a core component of Marx's theory). Consequently he is left with the simply contradictory proposition ...
Document Size: 10985
Author: Jim heartfield
Date: Thu Aug 26 04:19:01 PDT 1999
2479 Immiseration -- rank: 1000
In message <Pine.SOL.4.10.9908231229080.6304-100000 at tucson.Princeton.EDU >, Rakesh Bhandari <bhandari at phoenix.Princeton.EDU> writes >Jim, this will not do. We are arguing about the tenability of Grossmann's >increasing misery thesis >please don't stick him >with an iron law of wages. Grossmann was not Lassalle. >Jim, you are missing Grossmann's argument. I don't really have an argument with Grossman. I have an argument with the 'immiseration thesis' that was popu ...
Document Size: 5658
Author: Jim heartfield
Date: Tue Aug 24 10:20:58 PDT 1999
2480 replies to Rakesh, Wojtek, Charles, Chris Anarchism / Marxism debates -- rank: 1000
In message <37C1EA74.D435355 at igc.org>, Roger Odisio <rodisio at igc.org> writes > Rather, it >turns on what happens to both money wages and the configuration of jobs >(together they comprise the main determinants of income available for >consumption) relative to v. Even a falling v would prove nothing by itself. I >asserted that in the last 25 years wages and work changes have combined to >produce disposible income that at times lagged the rise in v. If so, thi ...
Document Size: 8156
Author: Jim heartfield
Date: Tue Aug 24 08:53:15 PDT 1999
2481 replies to Rakesh, Wojtek, Charles, Chris Anarchism / Marxism debates -- rank: 1000
In message <37C0FEBB.C6E12AC1 at igc.org>, Roger Odisio <rodisio at igc.org> writes > > >Jim heartfield wrote: > >> Marx is quite clear that the increase in profits by increased >> productivity cheapens the necessaries of life, making it possible for >> workers to enjoy more use-values, even while the value of labour-power >> is falling (Concept of Relative Surplus Value). > >With emphasis on "makes it possible". Yes, I was interest ...
Document Size: 7420
Author: Jim heartfield
Date: Mon Aug 23 08:27:37 PDT 1999
2482 Immiseration -- rank: 1000
I don't disagree with what is put below. I only ever said that Capital combines destructive and creative processes. Or, put another way, it is possible for the working class to raise its living standards, as expressed in use-values, while the value of labour power falls. Since you agree with that, I don't see what we are arguing about. In message <v02130501630bd5cbf6cc@[128.112.71.92]>, Rakesh Bhandari <bhandari at phoenix.Princeton.EDU> writes >We are confusing two things in our ...
Document Size: 7278
Author: Jim heartfield
Date: Mon Aug 23 07:38:09 PDT 1999
2483 replies to Rakesh, Wojtek, Charles, Chris Anarchism / Marxism debates -- rank: 1000
In message <v02130500630bd34c5acd@[128.112.71.43]>, Rakesh Bhandari <bhandari at phoenix.Princeton.EDU> writes > >Simply, it does no good to tell me that things have improved over the last >40 or 50 or 100 years, and statistics about improvements in mean life >expectancy over the last 25 years do not speak to the point either No, indeed, I am sure that no facts of any kind would dislodge your strongly held views. >Another most uncareful and inaccurate formulation of wh ...
Document Size: 7644
Author: Jim heartfield
Date: Sun Aug 22 11:26:00 PDT 1999
2484 replies to Rakesh, Wojtek, Charles, Chris Anarchism / Marxism debates -- rank: 1000
Dear Rakesh, It is a shame that you choose to adopt a college debating-point style to the discussion rather than address the theoretical - or empirical - issues raised. It means that instead of trying to understand those facts or arguments that do not fit your own perspective, you try to shout them down with counter-examples. But theory is not a question of disproving or dismissing those illustrations that fall outside of the dogma, it is a matter of explaining those, too, from the standpoint of ...
Document Size: 16898
Author: Jim heartfield
Date: Sun Aug 22 01:58:43 PDT 1999
2485 Anarchism / Marxism debates -- rank: 1000
In message <v04003a00b3e38d507387@[209.54.19.72]>, Eric Beck <rayrena at accesshub.net> writes >I mean, look what overly rigid thinking has done for James Heartfield: Based on >some little Marx tidbit he is an enthusiastic supporter of massive production >and, presumably by extension, rampant consumerism--the effects on the earth and >the human psyche be damned. Hey, leave me out of it. I didn't need Karl Marx to tell me that working people deserve more. Let's just say th ...
Document Size: 5203
Author: Jim heartfield
Date: Sat Aug 21 01:59:12 PDT 1999
2486 Marxism debates -- rank: 1000
Yes to the first point, no to the second. Yes in that of course, production of surplus value as the motive force of capital is the historically limited thing. No to the second in that capital arises out of exchange and takes hold of production. In practice of course the two things are mutually reinforcing. But any generalised exchange would create the basis for capital, and free exchange of labour power - at its normal value - still gives capital surplus value. In message <lV5ykFAuUbv3EwoQ at ...
Document Size: 7118
Author: Jim heartfield
Date: Fri Aug 20 15:52:33 PDT 1999
2487 replies to Rakesh, Wojtek, Charles, Chris Anarchism / Marxism debates -- rank: 1000
Rakesh, I think you miss the central point. You cannot persuade people to attend to the real barrier that capitalism places before human development by telling lies about how dreadful their lives are. If what Marxism has to say has no resonance in the lives of ordinary people, then it won't gain a hearing. In the 1950s the Communist Parties were committed to a vulgar theory of the absolute immiseration of the working class. That theory proved to be false, and those comrades were made a laughing ...
Document Size: 15540
Author: Jim heartfield
Date: Fri Aug 20 11:05:30 PDT 1999
2488 replies to Rakesh, Wojtek, Charles, Chris Anarchism / Marxism debates -- rank: 1000
In message <v02130500630bd4b1b67c@[128.112.71.77]>, Rakesh Bhandari <bhandari at phoenix.Princeton.EDU> writes >This is baffling to me. If the only problem with capital is that ensures >progress, albeit at a lower than 'potential' rate and with occasional set >backs, it seems inconceivable to me that the working class would ever >organize and undertake the risks to overthrow it. Jim, if this expresses >your understanding of the laws of motion (and your understanding is ...
Document Size: 18291
Author: Jim heartfield
Date: Fri Aug 20 03:13:36 PDT 1999
2489 Anarchism / Marxism debates -- rank: 1000
In message <00ac01bee9d9$650d5460$75ac10cb at rcollins>, rc-am <rcollins at netlink.com.au> writes >on the planning issue:but a question to those advocating planning as integral to >marxism/communism: doesn't this assume that the problem with capitalism >is the anarchic character of its production decisions? but, is it >anarchic? surely, the aim of production in a marxist conception is >surplus value -- not very anarchic there. and, without holding fast to >this ...
Document Size: 6734
Author: Jim heartfield
Date: Thu Aug 19 00:55:29 PDT 1999
2490 International Homicide Rates -- rank: 1000
An interesting twist to the murder and crime panics in the UK is the _non_appearance of the Yardie panic this year. So far fifteen people have been shot dead in gang fighting between black dealers in Harlesden and elsewhere. In the past the British police made a huge deal about the influx of 'Yardie' drug dealers from Jamaica. In the late 1980s the police's high profile raids of black clubs were justified in terms of the war against the 'Yardies'. Now, when killings are at an all-time high (thou ...
Document Size: 8539
Author: Jim heartfield
Date: Thu Aug 19 01:57:40 PDT 1999
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