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1666 More Somalia -- rank: 1000

'The women and children were combatants ... there are no sidelines ... everyone on the ground at that point was a combatant as far as we were concerned. ' UN spokesman Major David Stockwell explains why helicopter gunships had to kill 100 Somali civilians in Mogadishu 'UN troops were a little more trigger-happy than they should have been during Operation Restore Hope.' Michael Harper, UN envoy to Somalia. In Somalia, the figures given for people killed by the UN and US 'peacekeeping' forces are ...

Document Size:	6046
Author:	James Heartfield
Date:	Mon Sep 17 12:39:33 PDT 2001

1667 Should OBL be pursued? -- rank: 1000

Yes, I'm opposed. It's a simple liberal position, really. Anyone interested in freedom ought to have an attitude towards the state of extreme distrust. Those who say 'get bin Laden' are handing over their authority to a power that is not their own. It will rebound upon them. In pursuit of the overriding moral imperative 'get bin Laden', ordinary people's rights will be trampled. Pursuing bin Laden means extra-territorial action. Presuming that the US govt. is not proposing to seek extradition - ...

Document Size:	7783
Author:	James Heartfield
Date:	Mon Sep 17 12:14:07 PDT 2001

1668 Somalia -- rank: 1000

In message <36.1bc0e65d.28d7908c at aol.com>, LeoCasey at aol.com writes >you must add situations like >Somalia, where the failed American effort was clearly one of peacekeeping I think that's a bit naive, really. But even if the intentions were honourable, and not propagandistic, there is an empirical question of whether or not the sum total of the US' efforts in Somalia could be called a crime. The video footage of Somali families cowering behind walls under sustained fire from US ...

Document Size:	5951
Author:	James Heartfield
Date:	Mon Sep 17 12:17:35 PDT 2001

1669 Trees sowed in May bear rotten September fruit -- rank: 1000

In message <B7CB8F96.BD1D%jfisher at igc.org>, Jeffrey Fisher <jfisher at igc.org> writes >http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2001/index.cfm?docid=2928 > >it should be noted that this was food/humanitarian aid (which i certainly >don't object to in principle, btw), partly in kind and partly in cash. it >nevertheless amounts to a subsidy of the taliban regime. > >however, i thought the following worth quoting from the press release: > >"Even before this ...

Document Size:	14164
Author:	James Heartfield
Date:	Mon Sep 17 09:56:21 PDT 2001

1670 Afghanistan, America, Suicide -- rank: 1000

The WEEK ending 16 September 2001 HANDS OFF AFGHANISTAN! In response to the hijack attack on the Pentagon and World Trade Centre US leaders are demanding decisive action not just against individuals, but countries. The most mentioned target Afghanistan, refuge of Osama bin Laden who is pinpointed as perpetrator. American grief at the deadly attack is more than understandable, but nothing is gained by visiting that grief on the people of Afghanistan. According to Afghanistan's clerical regime: 'K ...

Document Size:	14583
Author:	James Heartfield
Date:	Sun Sep 16 02:17:17 PDT 2001

1671 Vote.com depressing outcomes -- rank: 1000

I would have said that a better insight into the poll result is that the ruling ideas are ever those of the ruling class. I took issue with Leo and Nathan because to me it seemed that they were repeating the popular sentiment uncritically. But it is just as much a mistake to imagine that the greater mass of people will not initially be swept up in the reaction. You shouldn't blame them en masse for that. That would just be a way of copping out of the difficult work of persuasion, and the embarra ...

Document Size:	7045
Author:	James Heartfield
Date:	Sun Sep 16 02:37:33 PDT 2001

1672 Vote.com depressing outcomes -- rank: 1000

In message <JGEOKGIIJAGIOMDJNAOIGEBOFKAA.chris at susi.net>, Christopher Susi <chris at susi.net> writes >The vast majority of U.S. Citizens either knew someone who lost their life >or the life of a loved one on Tuesday. Is that true? Nearly 250 million Americans all knew someone who worked in the WTC/Pentagon/NY Fire Service, who lost a life, or someone who so knew someone? Maybe a few had investments that were handled by someone in the WTC... -- James Heartfield

Document Size:	5075
Author:	James Heartfield
Date:	Sun Sep 16 02:43:37 PDT 2001

1673 Breaking down national unity -- rank: 1000

In message <p05001914b7c9408aa166@[140.254.113.89]>, Yoshie Furuhashi <furuhashi.1 at osu.edu> writes perceptively as ever >the impending war will have four important >objectives: > >1. Restore confidence in American might & invulnerability, shaken by >the Pentagon bombing; > >2. Coerce all the Arab regimes into backing America again >unequivocally, >3. Bury, likewise, the European complaints against recent displays of >American unilateralism; > & ...

Document Size:	5771
Author:	James Heartfield
Date:	Sat Sep 15 11:49:38 PDT 2001

1674 Raging Leo -- rank: 1000

In message <c9.156a69e4.28d27557 at aol.com>, LeoCasey at aol.com writes > Sitting pretty in complete comfort and safety in the original world >imperial power, he can decide which innocent human lives are expendable on his >ideological balance sheet of the right to strike "audacious! > blo >ws" against the "imperialist heartland." Leo forgets that Britain was subject to a bombing campaign by the provisional IRA for nearly thirty years, the greater part of ...

Document Size:	5827
Author:	James Heartfield
Date:	Fri Sep 14 03:11:32 PDT 2001

1675 Nathan corrected -- rank: 1000

In message <3948120513.1000380533 at ccs-aha442.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu>, lweiger at umich.edu writes >However, if Clinton and Co had managed to kill bin Laden a >couple of years ago, many lives probably would've been saved. > >-- Luke Do you think so? Do you really believe that the campaign against the US is down to one deluded man? After all, Clinton did take some fairly decisive action against bin Laden (or actually an aspirin factory in the Sudan). Was it effective in stoppi ...

Document Size:	5043
Author:	James Heartfield
Date:	Thu Sep 13 09:18:23 PDT 2001

1676 What is the moral course -- rank: 1000

In message <NEBBJEMHKLMPEMNJLPEIEEHADBAA.sawicky at bellatlantic.net>, Max Sawicky <sawicky at bellatlantic.net> writes >This is the most ridiculous post of the week, >but it's only Thursday. > >mbs Well come on then, gobshite, tell me what you disagree with. You want to carry on giving military aid to Israel? You want to keep Afghanistan in penury? You want to militarise the Third World, and keep agents (like Osama bin Laden)? You want to make war with the middle east? L ...

Document Size:	5692
Author:	James Heartfield
Date:	Thu Sep 13 07:34:25 PDT 2001

1677 Nathan corrected -- rank: 1000

In message <0b4901c13c56$4e347800$4d1f0f41 at home.com.excite.home.com>, Nathan Newman <nathan at newman.org> writes >No, you said it and its supporters were anti-democratic, infantile, and >ineffective. Nowhere did you express any moral view on the acts. You don't think that anti-democratic and infantile are moral judgements? (I don't think I did say ineffective.) I don't know if I can make myself any clearer. But you can. Join with me in opposing a military strike against Af ...

Document Size:	5014
Author:	James Heartfield
Date:	Thu Sep 13 07:29:46 PDT 2001

1678 Nathan corrected -- rank: 1000

In message <0ace01c13c46$ad2d77e0$4d1f0f41 at home.com.excite.home.com>, Nathan Newman <nathan at newman.org> writes > >What you said was that the intent of the terrorists was justified, but you >disagreed with their strategy. Did I? Where? > Leo is right that you are a morally outside >of any political comradeship with me. Agreed. (Incidentally, I read Leo's comment 'I have alternating feelings of incredible depression and barely controllable rage when I read some of ...

Document Size:	7175
Author:	James Heartfield
Date:	Thu Sep 13 05:34:07 PDT 2001

1679 What is the moral course -- rank: 1000

Luke asked: >Assuming that Bin Laden is responsible (along with possible >collusion from certain Arab states), what is the moral course for the >US to >follow (regardless of the fact that the Bush will not take it)? Withdraw all military aid to Israel, and re-direct the funds to re- building Afghanistan. Withdraw all US troops from Saudi Arabia, and suspend the sanctions and no-fly zone in Iraq. Sack all CIA operatives recruited in the third world. Publicly disown all attacks on Arab ...

Document Size:	5047
Author:	James Heartfield
Date:	Thu Sep 13 05:33:50 PDT 2001

1680 Leo corrected -- rank: 1000

> >>From: LeoCasey at aol.com > >> > >>But what is real offensive, so offensive I have difficulty finding the words > >>for my rage about it, is the series of posts from the Heartfields, the > >>Hanleys and the like which offer the intellectual equivalents of the > >>celebrations of joy in the streets of Nablus. It is obscene beyond belief > >>that they should foist upon us these justifications and explanations for mass > >> ...

Document Size:	5578
Author:	James Heartfield
Date:	Thu Sep 13 01:46:07 PDT 2001