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976 [lbo-talk] unions & OWS -- rank: 1000

on.wsj.com/sYR6mP Unions Look to Protesters for Future Supporters By MELANIE TROTTMAN Union members who descended on Occupy Wall Street encampments armed with tents, food and organizational expertise hope to turn young demonstrators into enduring labor allies, part of a larger effort to rejuvenate the movement's aging ranks. In the throngs of unemployed 20-somethings gathered in cities across the U.S., labor leaders see a chance to improve their movement's image with a generation of future worke ...

Document Size:	5002
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sat Oct 29 11:44:34 PDT 2011

977 [lbo-talk] the autumn of the communes? -- rank: 1000

On Oct 29, 2011, at 2:03 PM, Shane Mage wrote: > On Oct 29, 2011, at 12:10 PM, Doug Henwood wrote: >> ...The call to abolish corporate personhood, for example, betrays a lack of having thought anything about scale and organization... > > The idea that the issue of "corporate personhood" has anything to do with "scale and organization" betrays a lack of having understood what the issue is all about. Have you ever talked with or read any of the corporate personho ...

Document Size:	5335
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sat Oct 29 11:09:55 PDT 2011

978 [lbo-talk] [New post] Don't get me wrong -- rank: 1000

On Oct 29, 2011, at 1:15 PM, shag carpet bomb wrote: > Wot? You've averaged 8 posts a day this month - some days over 15 - a total of over 90,000 words. In the immortal words of Lenin, better fewer but better.

Document Size:	4809
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sat Oct 29 10:27:34 PDT 2011

979 [lbo-talk] the autumn of the communes? -- rank: 1000

On Oct 29, 2011, at 12:34 PM, Carrol Cox wrote: > When I come to the phrase "a lot of X" do or don't think this or that -- I stop reading because only nonsense can follow such constructions. How do you know, if you've stopped reading? And aren't you generalizing?

Document Size:	4835
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sat Oct 29 10:01:45 PDT 2011

980 [lbo-talk] the autumn of the communes? -- rank: 1000

On Oct 29, 2011, at 12:01 PM, Jim Farmelant wrote: > I wonder how Doug thinks any sort of socialist revolution would proceed. > > Such a revolution would be made by people who grew up in and are > the products of a capitalist society. If they socialize any of the means > of production, those means of production will have been the > creations of capitalism. It is also quite possible, and indeed probable, > that even after a revolution, we still will have a good deal of > ...

Document Size:	5765
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sat Oct 29 09:10:11 PDT 2011

981 [lbo-talk] It's a Long Road to Tipperary -- rank: 1000

On Oct 29, 2011, at 11:35 AM, Carrol Cox wrote: > shag wrote: Not that i disagree with what you said, per se. Just that it's important not to let this bet get by because this entire discussion is dominated by a repeated claim: there's no strategy, oh the humanity! blah fucking blah blah. as if repeating it a gogangajillion times makes it true. > > And Ian wrote: I want my revo and I want it now! > > And a friend in the '60s quoted Lenin as saying: "There are three revolutiona ...

Document Size:	5354
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sat Oct 29 08:54:04 PDT 2011

982 [lbo-talk] occupying retail -- rank: 1000

On Oct 28, 2011, at 9:26 PM, shag carpet bomb wrote: > they were directed to both of you. and if it's true, that you did read > what I wrote, you should be ashamed of yourself. "It's not what you say, it's what they hear." - Frank Luntz

Document Size:	4703
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Fri Oct 28 18:50:10 PDT 2011

983 [lbo-talk] occupying retail -- rank: 1000

On Oct 28, 2011, at 8:49 PM, shag carpet bomb wrote: > you didn't bother to read what *I* wrote, asshole. I suppose that's addressed to the person I quoted, since none of those words were mine, sweetheart.

Document Size:	4648
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Fri Oct 28 18:10:29 PDT 2011

984 [lbo-talk] the autumn of the communes? -- rank: 1000

On Oct 28, 2011, at 4:48 PM, Dennis Claxton wrote: > At 01:39 PM 10/28/2011, Eric Beck quoted: > >> A movement that began as a political response to economic injustice has become an economic response to capitalism. > > > I don't understand this at all. What is the economic response? The following passage: > Critics will say that while these small acts of communism are well and good, they will never be able to provide for the millions who depend on capitalism for daily br ...

Document Size:	6373
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Fri Oct 28 17:47:44 PDT 2011

985 [lbo-talk] occupying retail -- rank: 1000

Someone who reads lbo-talk wrote me offlist: > I worked at Target for 6 years, and I don't think that most people who work there would have been very receptive to people trying to "Occupy" the store. I think they would regard it as a nuisance and a threat to their meager paychecks. When store revenue goes down, hours are cut immediately in most cases (hours are tied directly to store revenues and managers have to keep it under their budget or they get sacked or demoted). If the O ...

Document Size:	5300
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Fri Oct 28 17:43:22 PDT 2011

986 [lbo-talk] occupation and situationists was Re: enemy's turf -- rank: 1000

On Oct 28, 2011, at 5:45 PM, SA wrote: > the process of collective action does have an inherent tendency to educate participants Which isn't served if the people who know something feel like they should keep their mouths shut. Doug

Document Size:	5003
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Fri Oct 28 17:31:57 PDT 2011

987 [lbo-talk] occupation and situationists was Re: enemy's turf -- rank: 1000

On Oct 28, 2011, at 5:23 PM, Carrol Cox wrote: > The realm of The Possible has suddenly broadened: I want -- We want -- to explore that new realm. Yeah. I'm passionately down with that. Lots of shit is happening. Occupying Walmart though would be really stupid. Doug

Document Size:	4964
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Fri Oct 28 17:31:10 PDT 2011

988 [lbo-talk] occupation and situationists was Re: enemy's turf -- rank: 1000

On Oct 28, 2011, at 4:12 PM, Carrol Cox wrote: > On 10/28/2011 1:43 PM, Andy wrote: > >> The message I'm getting is that you, Carrol, Eric and shag feel that >> all discussion of strategy and tactics beyond 24h or > > And you are so fucking wrong that it makes one want to weep. > > Oh Well. Tens of thousands understand perfectly, and the strategic debates and explorations are continuing unabated in every middleses, village, and farm . . . Really? Gosh, I must have m ...

Document Size:	5356
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Fri Oct 28 13:16:20 PDT 2011

989 [lbo-talk] occupation and situationists was Re: enemy's turf -- rank: 1000

On Oct 28, 2011, at 3:56 PM, shag carpet bomb wrote: > what is strategy? strategy | strat j | noun ( pl. -gies) a plan of action or policy designed to achieve a major or overall aim

Document Size:	4972
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Fri Oct 28 13:12:49 PDT 2011

990 [lbo-talk] occupation and situationists was Re: enemy's turf -- rank: 1000

On Oct 28, 2011, at 2:25 PM, Michael Smith wrote: > What I can't imagine is worrying about it. Wouldn't any *strike* > 'pit workers against customers'? This sort of thing is like being > frightened of your own shadow. It's different if the place is closed, rather than having workers or outside agitators sitting down in an open store. For a lot of people, Walmart is their major shopping option. It's not like an auto strike, where part of the leverage is that the frustrated GM customer co ...

Document Size:	5419
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Fri Oct 28 11:39:58 PDT 2011