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826 [lbo-talk] Did Ron Paul really say this ? -- rank: 1000

On Sep 28, 2011, at 5:45 PM, Lenin's Tomb wrote: > On 28/09/2011 18:36, Doug Henwood wrote: > On Sep 28, 2011, at 1:32 PM, c b wrote: >>> Congressman/Presidential candidate Ron Paul wrote, ""The beneficial, >>> educational impact of the John Birch Society over the past four >>> decades would be hard to overestimate. ... >> Wow, that's terrible. Where did you get it? > > Is it really that shocking? If you look at his books of speeches, he's ...

Document Size:	5483
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Sep 28 14:52:04 PDT 2011

827 [lbo-talk] Noam Chomsky is losing it -- rank: 1000

On Sep 28, 2011, at 3:28 PM, Michael Pollak wrote: > Now, that seems like a specific target, a policy a neighborhood activist would like to change. And we all know this is an infuriating and central issue among the populace, and correspondingly highlighted by many local black activists. > > Isn't this, then, a counter-example? It's a policy that touches people's lives a lot; the mechanism lies entirely in the attitudes of state agents; and you can measure what you want to change. > ...

Document Size:	5520
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Sep 28 12:34:43 PDT 2011

828 [lbo-talk] Noam Chomsky is losing it -- rank: 1000

On Sep 28, 2011, at 3:12 PM, Carrol Cox wrote: > subjective racism, or sheer hatred of Blacks _does_ characterize many if not all Police Departments in the U.S. There's no doubt that the NYPD does lots of nasty shit to black and brown people, mostly young men, but the NYPD was, as of 2009, "47.5% Caucasian, 28.9% Hispanic, 17.9% African American and 5.5% Asian." I'm quoting Wikipedia; can't find a primary source right now. I can tell you that my neighborhood in Brooklyn is full of ...

Document Size:	5191
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Sep 28 12:24:44 PDT 2011

829 [lbo-talk] Noam Chomsky is losing it -- rank: 1000

On Sep 28, 2011, at 2:38 PM, Eric Beck wrote: > I've read this three times before reading it again just now, and each > time I've been frustrated at how he manages to start to approach > what's at stake in these arguments but manages to miss it. Namely, he > moves from the racial to the economic, but never combines them Because, and after this I give up, it gets you nowhere. Criminalize less behavior and jail fewer people. Institute single-payer and make unemployment benefits more ge ...

Document Size:	5314
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Sep 28 12:13:58 PDT 2011

830 [lbo-talk] Chomsky's losing it -- rank: 1000

On Sep 28, 2011, at 2:36 PM, James Heartfield wrote: > How could one not notice that the meaning of race has changed in the US and in the developed world? The other epigraph from Adolph & Merlin's forthcoming SR piece comes from a South Carolina friend of Adolph's: > The only thing that hasn t changed about black politics since 1965 is how we think about it. > Willie Legette (ca. 1999)

Document Size:	4926
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Sep 28 12:08:50 PDT 2011

831 [lbo-talk] Noam Chomsky is losing it -- rank: 1000

On Sep 28, 2011, at 1:44 PM, Wojtek S wrote: > I pretty much agree with this analysis, but then what does it > imply in terms of strategic objectives. Not to support Dems? What > good will this do? I think the Dems are the enemy, but I won't insist that everyone see it that way. I will insist that people acknowledge how awful they are, what tools of the status quo they are, and that their apologists tell innumerable lies to keep the base in line. I would also insist that people pay mo ...

Document Size:	5199
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Sep 28 11:02:18 PDT 2011

832 [lbo-talk] Noam Chomsky is losing it -- rank: 1000

This discussion brings me back to an exchange I had with Noam several years ago. His point was that by boycotting Israel, Americans would be boycotting a political culture far more sophisticated than our own. And since Israel would have a very hard time doing what it does without U.S. money and weapons, what exactly is the point of Americans pushing a boycott of Israel and not of ourselves? And how do we boycott ourselves? Doug

Document Size:	4941
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Sep 28 10:46:03 PDT 2011

833 [lbo-talk] Did Ron Paul really say this ? -- rank: 1000

On Sep 28, 2011, at 1:32 PM, c b wrote: > Congressman/Presidential candidate Ron Paul wrote, ""The beneficial, > educational impact of the John Birch Society over the past four > decades would be hard to overestimate. It is certainly far more than > most people realize. Anyone who has been in the trenches over the > years battling on any of the major issues - whether it s pro-life, gun > rights, property rights, taxes, government spending, regulation, > national se ...

Document Size:	5771
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Sep 28 10:36:11 PDT 2011

834 [lbo-talk] Noam Chomsky is losing it -- rank: 1000

On Sep 28, 2011, at 1:31 PM, Wojtek S wrote: > Doug: "Again, what does invoking racism get you that fighting against > Israeli policy, for open borders, and against the brutalization of > Indians doesn't? And what does putting all these different things > under a single category - "racism" - accomplish, other than running > the risk of turning it all into a matter of subjectivity?" > > [WS:] Give it up, Doug. You cannot win this one with your arguments. ...

Document Size:	5341
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Sep 28 10:35:48 PDT 2011

835 [lbo-talk] Noam Chomsky is losing it -- rank: 1000

On Sep 28, 2011, at 1:21 PM, c b wrote: > Just > happened again with the Tea Party, elected based in white supremacist > coded messages, in Wisconsin, Michigan and Ohiio with attacks on > collective bargaining rights, threats of right to work for much less > laws, welfare cuts. Therefore, Obama in 2012. Yves Smith has an excellent hit on Melissa Harris-Perry's idiocy and the Dems' use of "McCarthyite smears" as a way of binding their base to banker-friendly policies: htt ...

Document Size:	9114
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Sep 28 10:29:00 PDT 2011

836 [lbo-talk] Noam Chomsky is losing it -- rank: 1000

On Sep 28, 2011, at 1:07 PM, Eric Beck wrote: > On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 11:47 AM, Doug Henwood <dhenwood at panix.com> wrote: > >> Really, where did you get this from? > >> From his writing (or, as cb might say, "the text"). I had some > knowledge of his political work, but didn't know the details. Thanks > for them, and for defending your friend, but none of that is really > contained in his writings on (anti)racism, as far as I can tell. Maybe > ...

Document Size:	12608
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Sep 28 10:18:17 PDT 2011

837 [lbo-talk] Noam Chomsky is losing it -- rank: 1000

On Sep 28, 2011, at 1:05 PM, Joseph Catron wrote: > Palestine, immigration, ongoing crimes against > indigenous North Americans? Again, what does invoking racism get you that fighting against Israeli policy, for open borders, and against the brutalization of Indians doesn't? And what does putting all these different things under a single category - "racism" - accomplish, other than running the risk of turning it all into a matter of subjectivity? Doug

Document Size:	5019
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Sep 28 10:15:06 PDT 2011

838 [lbo-talk] Noam Chomsky is losing it -- rank: 1000

On Sep 28, 2011, at 12:58 PM, Joseph Catron wrote: > On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 6:54 PM, Doug Henwood <dhenwood at panix.com> wrote: > > Is there any American who has done more to fight Israeli violence and >> apartheid and U.S. support of it than Noam Chomsky? Really. Can you think of >> a single person? > > Plenty of 'em; Said for one. Are you kidding? I'm guessing that a single one of Chomsky's books sells more copies than the entire oeuvre of Edward Said. I admi ...

Document Size:	5496
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Sep 28 10:12:22 PDT 2011

839 [lbo-talk] Noam Chomsky is losing it -- rank: 1000

Cde Cox: > If he has written it, then he has been spitting on the graves of > Malcolm, of King, Stokely Carmichael, of the murdered Fred Hampton and > Mark Clark (and other Panthers), of the recently murdered Troy Davis, > and of the millions of lives that are still be snuffed out by the > continuing racism at the core of u.s. culture. I didn't want to go here, but I'm seriously pissed off: it amazes me that a white guy from the cornfields could lecture a black guy (in absentia) w ...

Document Size:	5352
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Sep 28 09:59:04 PDT 2011

840 [lbo-talk] Noam Chomsky is losing it -- rank: 1000

On Sep 28, 2011, at 12:39 PM, Joseph Catron wrote: > Maybe so. I was trying to cast the net as narrowly as possible. But perhaps > opposing ethnically-oppressed people's broad demands for justice is racism, > regardless of who does it. > > And by "racism," I mean the consequential, structural sort. I haven't > wrapped my head around Reed yet, but care very little about the inner life > of Chomsky or anyone else. Is there any American who has done more to fight Isra ...

Document Size:	5314
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Sep 28 09:54:56 PDT 2011