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616 [lbo-talk] Graeber on wars -- rank: 1000

On Feb 24, 2012, at 3:07 PM, 123hop at comcast.net wrote: > Why did they want to fight a war with Iraq? or Afghanistan? Afghanistan is easy. The people who attacked on 9/11 trained there. You might consider this an evil or pointless response, but it makes some sense. Iraq, well, who knows really? If they intended to control the oil, things haven't worked out that way. 9/11 had plenty of effect on domestic dissent, but the two wars themselves haven't, have they? Doug

Document Size:	4981
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Fri Feb 24 12:16:53 PST 2012

617 [lbo-talk] Graeber on wars -- rank: 1000

On Feb 24, 2012, at 3:03 PM, Wojtek S wrote: > Why would they want to do this? The "diversion" hypothesis does > not make much sense to me, but even if it were true, the last four > years of the Great recession and austerity measures that followed > clearly demonstrated that there is no threat to the elites, even in > countries with more militant traditions than the US, like Greece or > France. They can handle street protests with one hand tied behind > their bac ...

Document Size:	5296
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Fri Feb 24 12:13:49 PST 2012

618 [lbo-talk] Austrians Caps... -- rank: 1000

On Feb 24, 2012, at 2:27 PM, Chuck Grimes wrote: > I'm looking for some critics about Austrian economics, mainly that focused in the privatization of money and central banks. Can anyone help me with papers or even some points for a good debate with them? > > This kind of theory is getting pretty damn serious here! Socrates 77 > > --------------- > > I can hope somebody finds something for you, but I kind of doubt it. Critics of current policy and critics of policies based on ...

Document Size:	5214
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Fri Feb 24 11:34:24 PST 2012

619 [lbo-talk] (The 23%...) -- rank: 1000

On Feb 24, 2012, at 1:56 PM, Eric Beck wrote: > On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Doug Henwood <dhenwood at panix.com> wrote: > >> David Graeber: >> >>> well I just noticed there was a pattern. >>> Civil Rights movement, with mass revival of civil disobedience, direct democracy movements (Port Huron statement) - government both gives big concessions and starts overseas war (Vietnam) >>> Anti-Nuclear movement, rapid rise of movement based on CD, ...

Document Size:	5576
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Fri Feb 24 11:10:54 PST 2012

620 [lbo-talk] (The 23%...) -- rank: 1000

On Feb 24, 2012, at 1:43 PM, Eric Beck wrote: > Is there are name for this rhetorical device, the one where you > summarize your opponent's views as the thing that you know would be > most diametrically opposed to what they expressly believe? David Graeber: > well I just noticed there was a pattern. > Civil Rights movement, with mass revival of civil disobedience, direct democracy movements (Port Huron statement) - government both gives big concessions and starts overseas war (Vie ...

Document Size:	5336
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Fri Feb 24 10:50:14 PST 2012

621 [lbo-talk] Getting back to Wall Street -- rank: 1000

On Feb 24, 2012, at 1:34 PM, Chuck Grimes wrote: > I like how NYers talk fast. > > I mean, why fuck around---get in more words per minute. Luv ya, Chuck. I sometimes get complaints from the Californians about my 170 wpm pace.

Document Size:	4800
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Fri Feb 24 10:37:07 PST 2012

622 [lbo-talk] Graeber on wars -- rank: 1000

On Feb 24, 2012, at 1:11 PM, Marv wrote: > Imperialist wars, including Iraq and Afghanistan, are fought far more to "impress" the subject populations than the home ones, especially in circumstances where the home populations can be counted on to support these ventures. Ruling classes don't need foreign wars as a pretext to intimidate or suppress their populations. They have many means for doing so in normal peacetime circumstances. Couple of more comments. The northeastern elite sup ...

Document Size:	5126
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Fri Feb 24 10:19:07 PST 2012

623 [lbo-talk] (The 23%...) -- rank: 1000

On Feb 24, 2012, at 1:09 PM, Wojtek S wrote: > And the whole direct action > mystique that his ethnographic accounts created was gone - it turned > into yet another variation on the All-American self-made mythology. And it evidently leads to fanciful versions of history, where the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were caused by the largely nonexistent successes of Seattle etc. And the antinuke movement led to the wars in Central America. And civil rights led to Vietnam. 9/11, PNAC, the San ...

Document Size:	5020
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Fri Feb 24 10:15:43 PST 2012

624 [lbo-talk] (The 23%...) -- rank: 1000

On Feb 24, 2012, at 12:12 PM, shag carpet bomb wrote: > I have a suspicion that it only makes sense if you have a good grasp of a more sociological or anthropolotical understanding of the world. Someone here, a few months ago, poo pooed the idea that it matters, for example, that people felt transformed by the experience of direct democracy. they saw it as crazy and cultish that rational human beings might get caught up in something as silly as the effervescent excitement what was going on ar ...

Document Size:	5212
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Fri Feb 24 09:20:30 PST 2012

625 [lbo-talk] Graeber on wars -- rank: 1000

On Feb 24, 2012, at 12:11 PM, Ben Daniels wrote: > I work as an editor on the newspaper of Occupy DC, and that actually sounds > like a really interesting thesis for a short piece (even assuming that > there's no conspiracy). Do you think it would be possible to work on an > article about that for the next issue? Our newspaper is really taking off > right now and we'd love to include some serious movement analysis alongside > the news staples that have been our bread and butter ...

Document Size:	5101
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Fri Feb 24 09:18:53 PST 2012

626 [lbo-talk] Graeber on wars -- rank: 1000

I asked David Graeber what evidence he had for the claim that elites started wars because of the success of the Global Justice movement. His answer: > well I just noticed there was a pattern. > Civil Rights movement, with mass revival of civil disobedience, direct democracy movements (Port Huron statement) - government both gives big concessions and starts overseas war (Vietnam) > Anti-Nuclear movement, rapid rise of movement based on CD, direct democracy, again govt seems to panic undu ...

Document Size:	6070
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Fri Feb 24 09:02:35 PST 2012

627 [lbo-talk] (The 23%...) -- rank: 1000

On Feb 24, 2012, at 10:47 AM, Carrol Cox wrote: > Shag on Graeber on the run-up to wa: > > 1. the anti-capitalist insurrections throughout the 90s and very early 00s > were successful. > > 2. global elites were challenged and terrified at this successful global > resistance. That's just pure fantasy. Global elites didn't give a shit. They barely noticed, in fact. They're annoyed by the rhetoric of OWS but have yet to take it seriously as a political challenge. Ed "Wall ...

Document Size:	5168
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Fri Feb 24 08:02:03 PST 2012

628 [lbo-talk] New look at Yom Kippur war -- rank: 1000

Israel Shamir is awful, and it's sad that CP publishes him. E.g.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Shamir#Views Shamir has made statements opposing both Zionism and Judaism,[20] and is a supporter of the proposed one-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.[21] Shamir has argued that there is organized Jewish control of the media and public discourse: "The rich Jews buy media so it will cover up their (and their brethren's) misdeeds. The Jews in the media are giving protection ...

Document Size:	9776
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Thu Feb 23 12:25:45 PST 2012

629 [lbo-talk] Query Progressive radio and Podcast -- rank: 1000

On Feb 22, 2012, at 3:25 PM, Gar Lipow wrote: > I'm trying to put together a list of liberal, progressive and lefty > radio shows and podcasts. I started out looking for a list, but to > show you the quality of what I've found so far, none mention Doug > Henwood, Ian Masters, or Sam Smith. Motherfuckers. How dare they?

Document Size:	4981
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Feb 22 12:48:40 PST 2012

630 [lbo-talk] jobs of the future.... -- rank: 1000

On Feb 21, 2012, at 8:59 PM, 123hop at comcast.net wrote: > On the last page of the last LBO, you discuss the top 30 occupations, noting that only 15% require a college degree. > > But then you also note that post-secondary teaching is a growing occupation. > > I thought they were going to industrialize college teaching....videos, etc. Plus, if college degrees aren't needed, why would college teachers be needed? Dunno - I'm just reporting what the BLS says.

Document Size:	5086
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Tue Feb 21 18:32:07 PST 2012