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5251 [lbo-talk] I say banana, you say bikini (was: those exotic Iranians) -- rank: 1000

On Jun 30, 2009, at 11:24 AM, ravi wrote: > Wearing bikinis as bathing attire is a Western preference. People go > bathing in the sea in Madras. They don't wear bikinis. They don't, > AFAIK, yearn for the freedom to wear one. Of course, they won't get arrested if they do. And apparently it's not an unknown practice: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wgw0m98PRPc> <http://www.indianbikini.net/img-naina-dhaliwal-674.htm> <http://www.indianbikini.net/img-red-bikini-%282%29-676 ...

Document Size:	5882
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Tue Jun 30 08:45:31 PDT 2009

5252 [lbo-talk] Irangeles -- rank: 1000

On Jun 29, 2009, at 9:59 PM, Jordan Hayes wrote: > Chris Doss writes: > >> I doubt hipster is a category that translates into Iranian society. > > Why do you doubt that Exoticism, I tell you. There can't be any Iranians like us because they're so...Persian.

Document Size:	4686
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Mon Jun 29 19:06:58 PDT 2009

5253 [lbo-talk] I say banana, you say bikini (was: those exotic Iranians) -- rank: 1000

On Jun 29, 2009, at 9:18 PM, Peter Ward wrote: > Personally, I think abortion should be legal for because rape or > near rape is still a reality Wow, I'm impressed with your broad-mindedness. > and because as an anarchist... That sounds like the setup for a sentence completion test.

Document Size:	5207
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Mon Jun 29 18:25:52 PDT 2009

5254 [lbo-talk] I say banana, you say bikini (was: those exotic Iranians) -- rank: 1000

On Jun 29, 2009, at 8:38 PM, Chris Doss wrote: > I don't think that anybody is assuming that Iranians don't want (the > right) to wear bikinis. What they are objecting to is the assumption > that lots of Iranians do. Could you, just for a little while, stop trivializing this stuff?

Document Size:	5174
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Mon Jun 29 18:07:08 PDT 2009

5255 [lbo-talk] Free Bernie! -- rank: 1000

On Jun 29, 2009, at 7:15 PM, Bill Bartlett wrote: > More seriously, I guess all this piss and wind from the judicial > system is an indication that there's no intention of any substantial > reforms of the financial system to actually put a stop to pyramid > schemes. No doubt that is seen as impractical, given that the world > financial industry is pretty much based on them. > > Instead, we'll just pretend that there's nothing wrong with the > system, just a few bad apples ...

Document Size:	5337
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Mon Jun 29 17:09:59 PDT 2009

5256 [lbo-talk] I say banana, you say bikini (was: those exotic Iranians) -- rank: 1000

On Jun 29, 2009, at 4:22 PM, ravi wrote: > BTW, let me take this opportunity to reiterate that Doug's use of > the word "exoticize" is best applied reflectively. It assumes such a > universality of his viewpoint that suggesting others might have a > different one is an act of exoticising them. So, if my brown "third > world" woman mother has certain preferences, say when it comes to > bathing attire, that do not gel with what the West prefers, then she > ...

Document Size:	6204
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Mon Jun 29 13:33:35 PDT 2009

5257 [lbo-talk] Tell them we are democrats (was: freedom to swim) -- rank: 1000

On Jun 29, 2009, at 3:21 PM, Chris Doss wrote: > Any society in which you have freedom to swim is blessed by Moong, > God of the Sky and Gender Equality, and so will flourish. Blessed is > Moong! Happy are those who obey His Will! What's the point of this? Gender equality is silly? Freedom of sexual expression is risible?

Document Size:	5131
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Mon Jun 29 12:42:14 PDT 2009

5258 [lbo-talk] Free Bernie! -- rank: 1000

Jailed for our sins? http://doughenwood.wordpress.com/2009/06/28/hipster-irony-breaks-new-ground/

Document Size:	4641
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sun Jun 28 14:45:15 PDT 2009

5259 [lbo-talk] Tell them we are democrats (was: freedom to swim) -- rank: 1000

On Jun 28, 2009, at 4:02 PM, Chris Doss wrote: > The mullahs are also speaking of universal values. Islam is a universal value? Why bother to convert the heathen then? Doug

Document Size:	4961
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sun Jun 28 14:19:05 PDT 2009

5260 [lbo-talk] Tell them we are democrats (was: freedom to swim) -- rank: 1000

On Jun 28, 2009, at 12:40 PM, ravi wrote: > Fine as far as that goes, but it is not an act of exoticising for > someone to say that perhaps your "ideas of justice", even if its > shared by a "lot" of Iranians, may neither be universal nor shared > by the majority. Rather, I suspect, it is the assumption that indeed > your ideas of justice are universal that is driving this accusation > of exoticisation i.e., you seem to be suggesting that if X does not > ...

Document Size:	5709
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sun Jun 28 10:52:42 PDT 2009

5261 [lbo-talk] Tell them we are democrats (was: freedom to swim) -- rank: 1000

On Jun 27, 2009, at 10:19 PM, Michael Smith wrote: > On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 21:07:23 -0400 > Doug Henwood <dhenwood at panix.com> wrote: > >> I care what >> Iranians are thinking and doing, and whether the nature of the >> Iranian >> regime squares at all with my ideas of justice. > > Doug, these two interests may not be entirely harmonious. Suppose > most Iranians don't share your ideas of justice -- where in that > case do you land? My ideas of j ...

Document Size:	5752
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sun Jun 28 05:15:40 PDT 2009

5262 [lbo-talk] Tell them we are democrats (was: freedom to swim) -- rank: 1000

On Jun 27, 2009, at 7:13 PM, Michael Smith wrote: > hat was tendentious about it was that they were very clearly > trying hard to construct a case out of whatever materials they > could find or contrive. > > I'm not sure it would repay the time and effort it would > take to deconstruct this polemic in statistics' clothing. > But maybe if the itch persists I'll write a blog post about > it and copy here. > > The short, broad-brush response would that all these statis ...

Document Size:	6699
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sat Jun 27 18:47:38 PDT 2009

5263 [lbo-talk] Tell them we are democrats (was: freedom to swim) -- rank: 1000

On Jun 27, 2009, at 6:56 PM, Peter Ward wrote: > On the other hand, one could mention any number of US clients where > savagely violent (as well nonviolent, of course) mechanisms are an > integral feature of the political system: Egypt, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, > Israel, Colombia, etc. A more relevant discussion would be: why is all > our righteous indignation directed again Iran? Perhaps, because the US > has an imperial objective in creating a by no means democratic puppet > ...

Document Size:	6326
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sat Jun 27 18:07:23 PDT 2009

5264 [lbo-talk] Tell them we are democrats (was: freedom to swim) -- rank: 1000

On Jun 27, 2009, at 5:00 PM, martin wrote: > On Jun 27, 2009, at 12:56 PM, Doug Henwood wrote: > >> >> On Jun 27, 2009, at 9:55 AM, Bill Bartlett wrote: >> >>> Obviously the vetting mechanism is different, with different >>> intended outcomes. But the strategy is the same, to ensure that >>> candidates and parties that are a threat to the ruling class are >>> prevented from getting onto the ballot. >> >> What's your point? W ...

Document Size:	5710
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sat Jun 27 14:17:40 PDT 2009

5265 [lbo-talk] Tell them we are democrats (was: freedom to swim) -- rank: 1000

On Jun 27, 2009, at 9:55 AM, Bill Bartlett wrote: > Obviously the vetting mechanism is different, with different > intended outcomes. But the strategy is the same, to ensure that > candidates and parties that are a threat to the ruling class are > prevented from getting onto the ballot. What's your point? We should embrace formal vetting because it's more honest?

Document Size:	5200
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sat Jun 27 12:56:31 PDT 2009