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3421 [lbo-talk] Palestine Think Tank: Jeff Blankfort - Chomsky and Palestine: Asset or Liability? -- rank: 1000

On Jul 22, 2010, at 10:54 AM, Eric Beck wrote: > Leaving aside the weird implication in this formula that people's > actions should be bound by their national identity They shouldn't of course, but we presumably have some influence over the actions of our gov that others don't.

Document Size:	5264
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Thu Jul 22 08:09:04 PDT 2010

3422 [lbo-talk] Palestine Think Tank: Jeff Blankfort - Chomsky and Palestine: Asset or Liability? -- rank: 1000

On Jul 22, 2010, at 10:31 AM, SA wrote: > On the third hand, all of these objectives can be satisfied with BDS of *US* (or other) firms with investments in Israel or that do business with the Israeli mil-ind complex, so I can't understand why there's a need to target Marks and Spencer, a campaign that really does creep me out. Finally, if there's one rationale that does *not* trump anything it's that some number of Palestinian groups are calling for BSD. There may be a duty to stand with your ...

Document Size:	6176
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Thu Jul 22 07:51:47 PDT 2010

3423 [lbo-talk] Palestine Think Tank: Jeff Blankfort - Chomsky and Palestine: Asset or Liability? -- rank: 1000

On Jul 22, 2010, at 10:31 AM, SA wrote: > the other hand, I think as a practical matter, BDS activities can be very useful, by giving activists something to do, and precisely by generating pressure on the *US* govt: Ultimately US support for Israel is dependent on popular acquiescence to the notion that Israel is a worthy beneficiary and boycotts are a very *visible* way of hammering on the theme that it's not. I would hope so, but I'm not sure how marching on Ricky's, a small NYC chain with ...

Document Size:	5704
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Thu Jul 22 07:47:15 PDT 2010

3424 [lbo-talk] Palestine Think Tank: Jeff Blankfort - Chomsky and Palestine: Asset or Liability? -- rank: 1000

On Jul 22, 2010, at 10:23 AM, Eric Beck wrote: > As for convincing the government to stop supporting Israel, I think > you are just being contrarian. You don't really think "we" can > convince the entire state/war apparatus to change it's mind do you? It's no more or less likely than a food co-op in Olympia, Wash., changing Israeli policy, is it? I suspect a lot of this sort of thing gets done because it makes people feel better, like they're doing something, rather than any e ...

Document Size:	5668
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Thu Jul 22 07:36:58 PDT 2010

3425 [lbo-talk] HB, Carrol -- rank: 1000

Hey gang, today is our favorite curmudgeon's 80th birthday. Happy Birthday, Carrol Cox!

Document Size:	4448
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Thu Jul 22 06:51:07 PDT 2010

3426 [lbo-talk] Palestine Think Tank: Jeff Blankfort - Chomsky and Palestine: Asset or Liability? -- rank: 1000

On Jul 22, 2010, at 9:40 AM, Eric Beck wrote: > Apparently, Doug, James, Chomsky, et al, want Palestinians to fight an > abstraction called American imperialism rather than resist the > tangible things that control their everyday existences Well, no. I was talking about Americans, not Palestinians. I think it's rather odd that Americans can get all excited about BDS'ing Israel when our own country not only makes Israel possible, it commits many horrors on its own. The invasion of Iraq, ...

Document Size:	5909
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Thu Jul 22 06:50:37 PDT 2010

3427 [lbo-talk] On Sherrod matter -- rank: 1000

On Jul 22, 2010, at 8:34 AM, c b wrote: > Take on the Tea Party racists on > behalf of Sherrod and Obama. Sherrod herself wishes that Obama were behind her. From Mike Allen: > BULLETIN -- George Stephanopoulos: [O]n 'GMA,' Shirley Sherrod says that she's not ready to accept Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack's job offer. She wants to hear more from the Secretary and his boss - President Obama. 'I can't say that the President is fully behind me,' Sherrod told me. 'I would hope that he is ...

Document Size:	5636
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Thu Jul 22 05:57:38 PDT 2010

3428 [lbo-talk] Palestine Think Tank: Jeff Blankfort - Chomsky and Palestine: Asset or Liability? -- rank: 1000

On Jul 21, 2010, at 11:36 PM, dredmond at efn.org wrote: > Agitate who? A Congress bought off with $3 billion of campaign donations? > A mainstream mass media dripping with Murdochian xenophobia and unashamed > drone-bomber imperialism? > > I don't always agree with Carrol, but he's absolutely right about a couple > of things: (1) the Dems are a pool of toxic waste left over from the Cold > War, and (2) the Left has zero influence over the US Federal government > right no ...

Document Size:	6085
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Jul 21 21:33:06 PDT 2010

3429 [lbo-talk] Palestine Think Tank: Jeff Blankfort - Chomsky and Palestine: Asset or Liability? -- rank: 1000

On Jul 21, 2010, at 10:52 PM, dredmond at efn.org wrote: > On Wed, July 21, 2010 5:55 pm, Doug Henwood wrote: > >> But, aside from that, it's weird for Americans to call for a boycott of >> Israel when our government supplies the IDF with money and weapons and >> diplomatic cover for whatever barbarity they commit. > > Not weird at all. It allows local communities and citizens around the US > to help end Israelo-apartheid in a nonviolent manner. It's also a great ...

Document Size:	6105
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Jul 21 20:14:44 PDT 2010

3430 [lbo-talk] Palestine Think Tank: Jeff Blankfort - Chomsky and Palestine: Asset or Liability? -- rank: 1000

On Jul 21, 2010, at 9:14 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote: > I suspect the kicker here is the "consensus of Palestinian civil society," which Blankfort and perhaps some others want to equate, without evidence, to their own views. How do we know what that consensus is? And how, actually, do we identify civil society in Palestine or anywhere else? Doug

Document Size:	5445
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Jul 21 18:27:50 PDT 2010

3431 [lbo-talk] Palestine Think Tank: Jeff Blankfort - Chomsky and Palestine: Asset or Liability? -- rank: 1000

On Jul 21, 2010, at 9:04 PM, Joseph Catron wrote: >> But, aside from that, it's weird for Americans to call for a boycott of >> Israel when our government supplies the IDF with money and weapons and >> diplomatic cover for whatever barbarity they commit. >> > > Umm ... Americans don't, Doug. Palestinians did. You're American. Blankfort is too. Doug

Document Size:	5524
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Jul 21 18:22:21 PDT 2010

3432 [lbo-talk] Palestine Think Tank: Jeff Blankfort - Chomsky and Palestine: Asset or Liability? -- rank: 1000

On Jul 21, 2010, at 8:35 PM, Joseph Catron wrote: > But I liked this article because it demonstrates > how flippantly Chomsky will dismiss the consensus of Palestinian civil > society. Why is Chomsky the issue, anyway? But, aside from that, it's weird for Americans to call for a boycott of Israel when our government supplies the IDF with money and weapons and diplomatic cover for whatever barbarity they commit. Doug

Document Size:	5541
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Jul 21 17:55:39 PDT 2010

3433 [lbo-talk] Palestine Think Tank: Jeff Blankfort - Chomsky and Palestine: Asset or Liability? -- rank: 1000

On Jul 21, 2010, at 3:05 PM, Bryan Atinsky wrote: > Yah, from my correspondences with Blankfort in the past, I would have to agree with Chip on this. Not to put too fine a point on it, but Blankfort's a dick.

Document Size:	5154
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Jul 21 12:22:47 PDT 2010

3434 [lbo-talk] white-on-white violence -- rank: 1000

I asked Pauline Grosjean, author of the paper on the Scots-Irish and the culture of honor, for her thoughts on how the racial violence of the South - the Klan, lynching - fit in with her work. Her answer: > In my view and that of many historians such as Randolph Roth, the culture of honor mainly explains white intraracial homicide. Many homicides were due to fights over status and, according to Roth, it was supremacy over whites than other whites were after. It would only apply to inter racia ...

Document Size:	5366
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Jul 21 10:40:47 PDT 2010

3435 [lbo-talk] Palestine Think Tank: Jeff Blankfort - Chomsky and Palestine: Asset or Liability? -- rank: 1000

On Jul 21, 2010, at 12:06 PM, James Heartfield wrote: > I must admit to being unfamiliar with Blankfort, but reading this article of his, he seems to be a horse's ass. > > It is creepy to go on about 'Jewish leftists' and 'within the tribe' ('tribe'?). But most clearly Blankfort is wrong when he says that the blame lies primarily with Israel not the US, and Chomsky is right when he says blame lies primarily with the US (and, I would add those other western allies). > > Further, Bl ...

Document Size:	6503
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Jul 21 09:44:54 PDT 2010