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3121 [lbo-talk] Eagleton's take (was M. Parenti joins the New Atheists?) -- rank: 1000

On Mar 24, 2010, at 4:26 PM, Chris Maisano wrote: > I don't think one needs to go in for religious apologetics to > recognize that there are some very deep flaws in the New Atheist > intellectual project. Terry Eagleton seems to me to have struck the > right balance between recognizing both the perniciousness of much > organized religion and the limitations of Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, > et. al. > > Here's a good precis of his perspective: http://www.commonwealmagazine.o ...

Document Size:	7236
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Mar 24 13:33:09 PDT 2010

3122 [lbo-talk] Americans and the bible -- rank: 1000

More on the status of the bible among Americans. <http://www.gallup.com/poll/15313/Teens-Stance-Word-God.aspx> teens adults actual word of God 39% 34% inspired word of God 46 48 fables & legends 14 15

Document Size:	4887
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Mar 24 13:25:40 PDT 2010

3123 [lbo-talk] M. Parenti joins the New Atheists? -- rank: 1000

On Mar 24, 2010, at 4:06 PM, Voyou wrote: > The problem I have with all these attempts to show that religion is > false isn't that they offend the delicate sensibilities of believers, > but that they seem so boring. It's obvious that, interpreted literally > and evaluated by the norms we use to evaluate most truth claims, the > bible is false (even biblical literalists don't deny this!) Do you live in the USA? According to Gallup, 30-40% of Americans believe in Biblical inerrancy ...

Document Size:	5522
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Mar 24 13:17:34 PDT 2010

3124 [lbo-talk] M. Parenti joins the New Atheists? -- rank: 1000

On Mar 24, 2010, at 3:56 PM, Dennis Claxton wrote: > How is he critiquing a text? He's critiquing obtuse interpretations > of a text. Besides, haven't our resident biblical scholars made a > point of the bible not being "a text" but a multiplicity of texts? I could wax Derridean and say that all texts are multiplicities, but the average bible reader - no, about 95% of bible readers - treat the thing as a unitary document, the fucking word of God, the ultimate author. Doug

Document Size:	5147
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Mar 24 13:04:46 PDT 2010

3125 [lbo-talk] M. Parenti joins the New Atheists? -- rank: 1000

On Mar 24, 2010, at 3:26 PM, Dwayne Monroe wrote: > I must be in... > > Hell! Where you'll step on naught but hot coals and drink naught > but hot cola! Or, in the words of Tom Waits, warm beer and cold women.

Document Size:	4871
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Mar 24 12:38:04 PDT 2010

3126 [lbo-talk] M. Parenti joins the New Atheists? -- rank: 1000

On Mar 24, 2010, at 3:06 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote: > Doug, the catechism you remember spending your childhood memorizing > (could it have been the 1885 Baltimore Catechism?) is not the text > Chris is referring to, a quite different (and much larger) document > produced a decade ago. Reading through this thing, it's only a slightly more sophisticated version of the doctrine that was pounded into my head as a child. How can you take anything seriously that treats Satan as real? < ...

Document Size:	5575
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Mar 24 12:25:40 PDT 2010

3127 [lbo-talk] M. Parenti joins the New Atheists? -- rank: 1000

On Mar 24, 2010, at 3:06 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote: > Doug, the catechism you remember spending your childhood memorizing > (could it have been the 1885 Baltimore Catechism?) is not the text > Chris is referring to, a quite different (and much larger) document > produced a decade ago. Ah yes. I fell away from The Church before that doc was emitted. But it's stuffed full of nonsense. E.g.: <http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p7.htm> Original sin - an essential truth o ...

Document Size:	9002
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Mar 24 12:17:52 PDT 2010

3128 [lbo-talk] M. Parenti joins the New Atheists? -- rank: 1000

On Mar 24, 2010, at 2:40 PM, Chris Doss wrote: > If you want to attack quantum physics, you attack the beliefs held > by quantum physicists, not the beliefs of some dude on the street. The bible isn't quantum physics. Economics, even, isn't quantum physics. A book full of moral lessons, tales of origin, parables, and fire-and-brimstone fulminating doesn't really qualify as science. Like I said, any literate person is qualified to comment on it. Some comments are worth more than others, ...

Document Size:	5184
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Mar 24 11:51:40 PDT 2010

3129 [lbo-talk] M. Parenti joins the New Atheists? -- rank: 1000

On Mar 24, 2010, at 2:07 PM, Chris Doss wrote: > He's probably completely unaware that the Catechism of the Catholic > Church says, in black and white, that Genesis is allegorical and > even spells out in what sense. That would require intellectual > honesty and research (oh no!). As someone who spent his childhood memorizing the catechism of the Catholic church, I can tell you that intellectual honesty and research have little to do with that preposterous document. It's about dril ...

Document Size:	5957
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Mar 24 11:21:10 PDT 2010

3130 [lbo-talk] dumbass poll -- rank: 1000

A dumbass poll by Harris to promote a book on how the wingnuts are allegedly taking over has the liberals all excited. Key findings, followed by why it's a dumbass poll. --- <http://news.harrisinteractive.com/profiles/investor/ResLibraryView.asp?BzID=1963&ResLibraryID=37050&Category=1777 > Mar 24, 2010 "Wingnuts" and President Obama A socialist? A Muslim? Anti-American? The Anti-Christ? Large minorities of Americans hold some remarkable opinions A new book, Wingnuts: H ...

Document Size:	10756
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Mar 24 11:10:57 PDT 2010

3131 [lbo-talk] fiscal crisis update -- rank: 1000

Any of you O'Connor fans - is there any text that would serve as an update to his Fiscal Crisis of The State? Much water has flowed under the bridge since then. Doug

Document Size:	4646
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Mar 24 10:02:59 PDT 2010

3132 [lbo-talk] M. Parenti joins the New Atheists? -- rank: 1000

On Mar 24, 2010, at 12:08 PM, Marta Russell wrote: > I am not a religious person or affiliated in any way and don't base > my opposition to capitalism this way but there are allies to find > there. There are, but mainly because of their political beliefs, not their religious grounding. Religion can be used to support almost any political point of view. In Latin America, Catholics have been among the most reactionary and most progressive forces. What's the specific contribution of Ca ...

Document Size:	5187
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Mar 24 09:13:40 PDT 2010

3133 [lbo-talk] M. Parenti joins the New Atheists? -- rank: 1000

On Mar 24, 2010, at 11:08 AM, Joseph Catron wrote: > For starters, you should not make it a point to read the Bible (or > anything > else) from the most obtuse perspective possible. No you shouldn't, but you also shouldn't be so "liberal" in your interpretation that you ignore all the pernicious shit. Doug

Document Size:	4970
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Mar 24 08:16:00 PDT 2010

3134 [lbo-talk] M. Parenti joins the New Atheists? -- rank: 1000

On Mar 24, 2010, at 11:03 AM, Chris Doss wrote: > The Bible is not supposed to be literally true, except in the > fantasies of fundamentalists, who are an abberation in Christianity > and exist in numbers only in the United States. Therefore, > critiquing their paradigm is dumb (and also won't convince them). I'm not sure what "supposed to be" means in this context, but that aside, the Bible is full of nonsense. It's got some merit as a literary work, and is obviously rat ...

Document Size:	5294
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Mar 24 08:15:15 PDT 2010

3135 [lbo-talk] M. Parenti joins the New Atheists? -- rank: 1000

On Mar 24, 2010, at 10:31 AM, Joseph Catron wrote: > I sincerely hope that Michael Parenti's new God and His Demons isn't > half so > obtuse as Gregory Elich portrays it: > > http://www.counterpunch.org/elich03242010.html > > "Assessing the Bible in the light of literal interpretation as > advocated by > fundamentalist Christians, rather than inspiration Parenti finds a > deeply > troubling narrative ..." > > This sounds even stupider than Dawkins ...

Document Size:	5514
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Mar 24 07:47:00 PDT 2010