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29461 Who Does No Work, Shall Not Eat -- rank: 1000

Chuck0 wrote: >Otherwise, you still have a system where people are forced to work. > >Capitalist gun to your head or socialist one? Choose neither. Here's where I have to part company with anarchism, as charming as I find a lot of it. Sometimes it just seems like an infantile "No!" inflated to the level of a political philosophy. We have to work because if we don't we die. People who don't work are living off the work of others, one way or another. Of course, human societies h ...

Document Size:	5168
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sun Jan 20 13:15:59 PST 2002

29462 Brits upset about prisoner treatment -- rank: 1000

Sunday January 20 2:08 PM ET Britain Wants U.S. to Explain Guantanamo Bay Photos By Mike Peacock LONDON (Reuters) - Britain said Sunday it wanted an explanation from the United States about published photographs showing Taliban and al Qaeda prisoners on a U.S. base in Guantanamo Bay kneeling and tightly manacled. British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said in a statement that ``prisoners, regardless of their technical status, should be treated humanely and in accordance with customary internationa ...

Document Size:	7871
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sun Jan 20 12:23:22 PST 2002

29463 Who Does No Work, Shall Not Eat -- rank: 1000

ravi wrote: >given the pro-industrial pro-modern-world position of most of the >posts on this thread (a kind of russellian pooh-pooh'ing of >primitivism?) i am curious about what folks think about bodley's >work on tribal people (for eg his interesting book: victims of >progress) who, if he is to be believed, lived a life without these >factories and fancy medical devices, that seem to be inalienable, in >a sustainable manner. Kind of late for all that now, isn't it? Pro-ind ...

Document Size:	5061
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sun Jan 20 11:38:08 PST 2002

29464 Who Does No Work, Shall Not Eat -- rank: 1000

Chuck0 wrote: >Didn't we go over this several months ago? It's not just a matter of >advocating "small is better" but freedom for the individual. If the >individual still has to go to some alienating factory job, what's the >fucking difference if it is called socialism or capitalism? Of course, >there is no difference, which is why socialists have been called the >left wing of capital for good reasons. So no factories in Anarchotopia? We'll all be artisans tilling our ...

Document Size:	5109
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sun Jan 20 09:36:23 PST 2002

29465 Hitchens, Bush, expectations -- rank: 1000

Ian Murray quoted Christopher Hitchens: >His place in the annals will depend on the way in which he can >continue to exceed what were, a year >ago, the lowest possible expectations. Wow. Someone should unleashing Christopher Hitchens on the author of this apologetic hackery. Doug

Document Size:	4772
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sun Jan 20 09:35:02 PST 2002

29466 "Central "Planning is really Holistic Planning. -- rank: 1000

Joe R. Golowka wrote: > > So who will have the power to prevent bureaucracies from reappearing once >we have >> anarchism? > >Everyone. And you don't see that as a problem? If everyone is responsible, is anyone? No division of labor in your utopia? No mechanism of authority with accountability? When I hear things like this, I think of Nancy Folbre's critique of the Albert/Hahnel parecon model - it's a vision of life as one long student council meeting. Doug

Document Size:	5216
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sun Jan 20 09:30:10 PST 2002

29467 Who Does No Work, Shall Not Eat -- rank: 1000

Chuck0 wrote: >it ain't >going to be very easy to make new computer chips after the revolution. Well the No Work revolution at least. So no antibiotics either? Refrigeration? Motorized transport? So what about these 6 billion people walking the earth now - couldn't support more than a fracction of them if we all refused work, could we? I hear stuff like this and I think - "no work for me, I'm too cool, but all those other saps can keep toiling...." Doug

Document Size:	4962
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sat Jan 19 13:56:30 PST 2002

29468 Who Does No Work, Shall Not Eat -- rank: 1000

Seth Ackerman wrote: >Doug Henwood wrote of Sweden: > >>(Income distribution has >> gotten a lot worse > >Really? Where does that come from? Some LIS working paper, I assume. Yes, but now of course I can't find it. Also got it from talking to some Swedish journalists & economists. But, it should be underlined, nothing remotely like the U.S. Doug

Document Size:	4903
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sat Jan 19 13:49:59 PST 2002

29469 Who Does No Work, Shall Not Eat -- rank: 1000

Chuck0 wrote: >Miles Jackson wrote: > >> Kel hits on the thing that bugs me here: if we keep using the term >> "work" to refer to wage labor, we make invisible a huge amount of the >> social labor that is necessary for our society to thrive, and we take >> the people who do it for granted. "Everybody should work, no shirkers": >> fine, as long as we realize that work is far, far, more than wage labor, >> even in an industrial s ...

Document Size:	5503
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sat Jan 19 12:43:10 PST 2002

29470 Who Does No Work, Shall Not Eat -- rank: 1000

Seth Ackerman wrote: >Doug Henwood wrote: > >> Well there's always the old Swedish system. If you couldn't work you >> were treated generously, but if you could work, every effort was made >> to find you a job, and if one wasn't available, one was created. It >> wasn't cheap - it cost something like 2% of GDP - $200 billion in the >> U.S. - but it was popular. > >I don't know why you use the past tense. Because lots has happened in Sweden over the l ...

Document Size:	5241
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sat Jan 19 12:48:06 PST 2002

29471 Historical test of Soviet planning -- rank: 1000

Justin Schwartz wrote: >(1b) The success of poor countries in making world market caliber >goods shows that there is an important sense in in which Maylasia, >etc. are part of the world market economy, and how markets can >privide incentives to do better for priducers. The inequalities are >terribly troubling, but the question is whether they are due to >markets or to private property. I think the latter. Beat in mund >that I do not defend capitalism. Maylasia's contribution ...

Document Size:	5488
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sat Jan 19 11:52:20 PST 2002

29472 Who Does No Work, Shall Not Eat -- rank: 1000

Luke Weiger wrote: > > > I guess I must be stupid. Why's that? >> Whereas allowing the lazy and idle to surf at Malibu and hang out in cafes >> in the Village at the expense of the rest of us who build buildings and >file >> papers and such avoids the domination of a minority? >> >> Sheesh, no wonder the left is fucked sideways. You just try, just _try_, >> selling this view to ordinary working people. They will not give you the >> tim ...

Document Size:	5676
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sat Jan 19 11:47:21 PST 2002

29473 Overpopulation as a myth? -- rank: 1000

Tom Athanasiou has a good chapter on population in his book The Ecology of Rich and Poor. Doug

Document Size:	4496
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sat Jan 19 11:32:13 PST 2002

29474 Central Planning (Napster?!) -- rank: 1000

Justin Schwartz wrote: >Well, are you talking about with or without markets? Albert & Hahnel >envision nonmarket arrangements with such computer links. The >problem is that while it may provide information about current >demand, it doesn't help with (a) ensuring accuracy, since people may >accidentally overstate (typically) their needs--I am bad myself at >guessing what I will want, (b) making long term plans about use of >resources, (c) coordinating competing demands, o ...

Document Size:	5965
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sat Jan 19 11:05:34 PST 2002

29475 electoral reform -- rank: 1000

[posted from non-sub'd address] From: "Nathan Newman" <newman at socrates.Berkeley.EDU> To: <lbo-Talk at Lists.Panix.Com> Subject: Elecctoral Reform - plus a little on Enron Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 07:58:33 -0500 Here is a bit more on the SF campagn for instant runoff voting, with a letter by Jesse Jackson Jr. outlining some reasons why Dems may support the reform, primarily to avoid the racial bloodletting we've seen in races like the Los Angeles and New York mayoral races ...

Document Size:	20832
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sat Jan 19 10:58:19 PST 2002