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21751 [lbo-talk] Hersh on Abu Ghraib: Systematic and documented months ago -- rank: 1000

Carl Remick wrote: >>You're underestimating what damage a gang of heavily armed >>religious lunatics who feel cornered can do. Do you have any sense >>how millenarian and violent the American right is? >> >>Doug > >Hey, what happened to that good cheer? It's not undifferentiated or uncritical you know. Doug

Document Size:	5176
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sun May 2 09:00:24 PDT 2004

21752 [lbo-talk] Hersh on Abu Ghraib: Systematic and documented months ago -- rank: 1000

Bill Bartlett wrote: >Four more years, surely that isn't much for the rest of the world to ask for. You're underestimating what damage a gang of heavily armed religious lunatics who feel cornered can do. Do you have any sense how millenarian and violent the American right is? Doug

Document Size:	5154
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sun May 2 08:28:21 PDT 2004

21753 [lbo-talk] "Cheer the Fuck Up" -- rank: 1000

Oh yeah, why did the U.S. retreat from Fallujah rather than flattening it, like the Russians did to Grozny? Might it have something to do with the antiwar movement? The fact that millions were in the streets a year ago may have helped saved thousands of lives. But I forgot; there are so many horrible things going on. Must remember to stay gloomy. Doug

Document Size:	4870
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sun May 2 08:24:27 PDT 2004

21754 [lbo-talk] "Cheer the Fuck Up" -- rank: 1000

Ted Winslow wrote: >It's torture for fun, torture as an end in itself, that's at issue Michael. Who made that the issue? That's a pretty weird transformation. Doug

Document Size:	4701
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sun May 2 08:17:36 PDT 2004

21755 [lbo-talk] "Cheer the Fuck Up" -- rank: 1000

C. G. Estabrook wrote: >Where (as the shrinks would say) is the excess affect coming from, Doug? >Yoshie/Slavoj seem to me to be making important points here about pleasure >and duty. And -- more importantly -- they seem to be right. --CGE Uh, if i were endorsing totalitarian power and repressive torture, they might be relevant points. Rather on the opposite end of the spectrum, I was urging people to take pleasure in the victories (however partial, however incomplete, etc. etc. yeah y ...

Document Size:	5304
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sun May 2 08:16:15 PDT 2004

21756 [lbo-talk] Re: Cultural change? -- rank: 1000

uvj at vsnl.com wrote: >Eubulides wrote: > >> I thought you asserted the US had no culture or culture makers? >> >> The list of living culture makers currently in the US is so huge and is >> largely built on the names of the people I listed......... > >Contrary to the "Leftwing" fairy tales about the decline of US, US influence >(economic and cultural) has grown enormously in my part of the world in the >last 15 years. Neither the EU nor Jap ...

Document Size:	5694
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sun May 2 08:11:45 PDT 2004

21757 [lbo-talk] "Cheer the Fuck Up" -- rank: 1000

Yoshie Furuhashi wrote: >The American men and women who had themselves photographed while >torturing Iraqis look to be . . . a very cheerful bunch, in a >mythical All-American sort of way, with big grins and thumbs up. I >can imagine them telling the tortured Iraqis to "cheer the fuck up," >in a military version of the totalitarian command "enjoy!" I can't believe I have to do this, but what the hell. I don't think people should be cheerful as a default temper ...

Document Size:	6794
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sun May 2 08:03:58 PDT 2004

21758 [lbo-talk] "Cheer the Fuck Up" -- rank: 1000

Ted Winslow wrote: >Doug quoted Foucault: > >>"Do not think that one has to be sad in order to be militant, even >>though the thing one is fighting is abominable." - Foucault > >Does this mean that, given we can "imagine" people as "an >appropriate target for hatred and struggle," we can have fun killing >them? Dunno. I give up. Does it? Doug

Document Size:	5019
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sun May 2 07:57:19 PDT 2004

21759 [lbo-talk] "Cheer the Fuck Up" -- rank: 1000

Yoshie Furuhashi wrote: >The American men and women who had themselves photographed while >torturing Iraqis look to be . . . a very cheerful bunch, in a >mythical All-American sort of way, with big grins and thumbs up. I >can imagine them telling the tortured Iraqis to "cheer the fuck up," >in a military version of the totalitarian command "enjoy!" Oh for christ's sake. Are you just driven by the sheer urge to be contrary? "Do not think that one has to be ...

Document Size:	5192
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sat May 1 20:22:53 PDT 2004

21760 [lbo-talk] Re: Cultural change? -- rank: 1000

Gary? wrote: >From: "Doug Henwood" > >> What the fuck is that supposed to mean? And where are you coming from >exactly? >> >Ask Leonard Peltier, let's re-visit Riby Ridge, the Move house in >Philadelphia, Waco, meandering verbiage on the wonders of the sixties >doesn't do justice to the realities. Middle class white america safely >ensconced at home debating the trials and tribulations when anybody who >steeped off the main stream has been blasted d ...

Document Size:	5611
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sat May 1 15:33:30 PDT 2004

21761 [lbo-talk] Purging Black Votes: 2000 and 2004 -- rank: 1000

R wrote: >society may have improve in some ways during the 1960s, but much is rolled >back and replaced by privatization, nonsense about "reverse discrimination," >deregulation, the "war" on drugs, the "war" on terror, et al. and jim crow >once again rolls along. This is one reason the left has so little broad appeal - there are deep reservoirs of pessimism, decline, depression, and fear in our discourse. We're literally hopeless, and can't even enjoy o ...

Document Size:	5177
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sat May 1 14:57:12 PDT 2004

21762 [lbo-talk] more torture by rogue troops -- rank: 1000

...Brits this time: <http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/tm_objectid=14199634%26method=full%26siteid=50143%26headline=shame%2dof%2dabuse%2dby%2dbrit%2dtroops-name_page.html> Tony Blair is appalled. Doug

Document Size:	4912
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sat May 1 14:50:45 PDT 2004

21763 [lbo-talk] "victory over the Americans!" -- rank: 1000

Michael Perelman wrote: >Is it really a victory over the US or just one of the only intelligent >things that the US has done. Don't ask me what the others are. I >can't think of any. If it's a retreat, or strategic regroupment, it's both intelligent and a victory. Doug

Document Size:	4932
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sat May 1 12:32:48 PDT 2004

21764 [lbo-talk] Hersh on Abu Ghraib: Systematic and documented months ago -- rank: 1000

snitilicious at tampabay.rr.com wrote: >At 02:50 PM 5/1/2004, Doug Henwood wrote: >>snitilicious at tampabay.rr.com wrote: >> >>>Would be nice to see an international coalition make use of this >>>to shove these guys out. Call me a dreamer. >> >>Which guys? > >the. u.s.! Can Americans join too? I swear, W has done more to discredit the U.S. imperial project than any other force in history. Have we ever been so hated, even at the height of the Vi ...

Document Size:	5588
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sat May 1 12:02:58 PDT 2004

21765 [lbo-talk] Loyalty Day -- rank: 1000

[can't find this year's proclamation on the WH website, so here's last year's] For Immediate Release Office of the April 30, 2003 Loyalty Day, 2003 By the President of the United States of America A Proclamation To be an American is not a matter of blood or birth. Our citizens are bound by ideals that represent the hope of all mankind: that all men are created equal, endowed with unalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. On Loyalty Day, we reaffirm our allegiance to our ...

Document Size:	8293
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Sat May 1 12:00:50 PDT 2004