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1681 [lbo-talk] Dems: not an institution? -- rank: 1000

So the Dems aren't in some sense an organized party? > POLITICO Breaking News > ------------------------------------------------- > > House Democratic leaders could take the first steps toward stripping Rep. Anthony Weiner of his seat on the Energy and Commerce Committee as early as Thursday, as part of a larger push to force Weiner out of office, according to Democratic sources familiar with the move. Party leaders will meet at noon Thursday to discuss the matter. "That is unde ...

Document Size:	5160
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Jun 15 17:54:30 PDT 2011

1682 [lbo-talk] Fwd: Re: Politics vs the DP -- rank: 1000

On Jun 15, 2011, at 5:39 PM, Wojtek S wrote: > Doug quoted: "Glen's piece today on the right's successful creation of > a charter school lobby among black Dems is a perfect example:" > > [WS:] How that's Democrats' fault is beyond me. Are you trying to > say that Democrats are working to undermine its main institutional > support base, the teachers' unions? Accusing them of being venal may > make sense, but suicidal? Have you been paying attention? Obama and Du ...

Document Size:	5177
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Jun 15 15:44:50 PDT 2011

1683 [lbo-talk] Politics vs the DP -- rank: 1000

On Jun 15, 2011, at 5:04 PM, SA wrote: > And since nobody cares, there's no traction in the issue Isn't this rather circular? "Nobody" cares because without Dems there's no antiwar movement, and this is a Dem's war. Therefore, nobody cares.

Document Size:	4711
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Jun 15 15:44:03 PDT 2011

1684 [lbo-talk] Politics vs the DP -- rank: 1000

On Jun 15, 2011, at 4:30 PM, SA wrote: > Wait a minute. So if Dems don't complain, there's no public opposition? That means complaining Dems must have been critical to the antiwar movement in 2005-2007. Yes. That's consistent with Heaney's results. E.g., partisan composition of antiwar demos in January 2007 was 55% Dem, 40% no party. When Hopey took office, it was 50% no party, under 30% Dem. Without significant participation by Dems, there is no popular antiwar movement.

Document Size:	4937
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Jun 15 13:37:08 PDT 2011

1685 [lbo-talk] Politics vs the DP -- rank: 1000

On Jun 15, 2011, at 4:23 PM, brad wrote: > And isn't > party loyalty on the decline too. Not among partisans. They're more partisan than ever. The broad mass doesn't give a shit, mostly.

Document Size:	4661
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Jun 15 13:28:10 PDT 2011

1686 [lbo-talk] Fwd: Re: Politics vs the DP -- rank: 1000

On Jun 15, 2011, at 3:51 PM, Carrol Cox wrote: > Glen Ford noted that Obama was a "problem" for the Black left; he's a problem for all of us, though less intensely I suppose than for black leftists. Glen's piece today on the right's successful creation of a charter school lobby among black Dems is a perfect example: http://blackagendareport.com/content/how-corporate-right-divided-blacks-teachers-unions-and-each-other

Document Size:	5121
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Jun 15 13:01:51 PDT 2011

1687 [lbo-talk] Politics vs the DP -- rank: 1000

On Jun 15, 2011, at 3:42 PM, SA wrote: >> Peep? > > Not from the public. Because Dems aren't complaining. In fact, you now have more Reps complaining about Afg. Doug

Document Size:	4662
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Jun 15 12:49:40 PDT 2011

1688 [lbo-talk] Politics vs the DP -- rank: 1000

On Jun 15, 2011, at 3:30 PM, brad wrote: > Why would this be the fault of the DP instead of the CP and UFPJ? > Isn't it the movements and organizations fault for not keeping > pressure up once the DP took over? Who said it's the Dems' fault? It's the structural thing, whereby loyalty to the Dems disarms people who know better. Doug

Document Size:	4826
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Jun 15 12:37:39 PDT 2011

1689 [lbo-talk] Politics vs the DP -- rank: 1000

On Jun 15, 2011, at 2:50 PM, SA wrote: > You guys are blind. Still, I'll try to show the story in pictures. U.S. deaths in Afghanistan 2001 12 2002 49 2003 48 2004 52 2005 99 2006 98 2007 117 2008 155 2009 317 2010 499 2011 173 (so far) Peep?

Document Size:	4761
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Jun 15 11:59:45 PDT 2011

1690 [lbo-talk] Politics vs the DP -- rank: 1000

On Jun 15, 2011, at 1:20 PM, Eric Beck wrote: > Carrol is fond of talking about Wisconsin and how it has opened new > possibilities, which I agree with. But part of what made Wisconsin > "Wisconsin" was the role that Democratic legislators played in the > events, particularly their fleeing the state and disrupting the > legislative process, which helped create the space that allowed the > protest movement to flourish, to become creative. But hasn't that movement now l ...

Document Size:	5067
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Jun 15 10:35:52 PDT 2011

1691 [lbo-talk] Politics vs the DP -- rank: 1000

On Jun 15, 2011, at 1:17 PM, Dennis Claxton wrote: > How do you separate out "mass salience" from the Obama effect. If Dem antiwar demonstrators thought of Obama as a peace candidate, then it makes just as much "perfect sense" that they would think the job was done when Obama was elected. Ditto the media, which really was totally in the tank for him.

Document Size:	4835
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Jun 15 10:34:52 PDT 2011

1692 [lbo-talk] Politics vs the DP -- rank: 1000

On Jun 15, 2011, at 12:37 PM, SA wrote: > I thought you were going to bring up that study. Sorry, but as I said before when it came up, it's a lame and shoddy argument wrapped around a good piece of research. Heaney found that demonstration turnout fell precipitously starting with the Obama campaign, lasting through the Obama presidency, and that it was precisely those who ID'd as Democrats who stopped going to the demos. He therefore concluded that correlation was causation and that Obama ca ...

Document Size:	8512
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Jun 15 09:55:48 PDT 2011

1693 [lbo-talk] Weiner unhid! -- rank: 1000

On Jun 15, 2011, at 12:15 PM, 123hop at comcast.net wrote: > I'm glad that things worked out for you. > > I spent a fair amount of time hanging with cops when I was a state park ranger and, mostly, I agree with Carrol. > > Avoid cops. Understand that they have total discretion and power, and that they can pretty much do whatever they want to do. This is why all my black boyfriends drove like grandmothers. Here's a cop telling you why you should never talk to a cop. http://www.yout ...

Document Size:	5153
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Jun 15 09:24:34 PDT 2011

1694 [lbo-talk] Politics vs the DP -- rank: 1000

On Jun 15, 2011, at 11:58 AM, SA wrote: > Can someone explain a bit more how exactly this process works, i.e. whereby the DP "bleeds" movements of followers and leaders? It's not that I don't believe it, I'd just like to understand exactly what we're talking about. Do people stop going to demonstrations? Why? Yes. That was exactly the finding of Michael Heaney: http://www.leftbusinessobserver.com/Radio.html#S110416 This focuses on the antiwar movement. Once it stopped being Bush's w ...

Document Size:	5100
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Jun 15 09:23:27 PDT 2011

1695 [lbo-talk] Wealth distribution -- rank: 1000

On Jun 15, 2011, at 11:33 AM, James Leveque wrote: > Does the bear market account for the small bump in income amongst the middle > and bottom because companies were shifting the money out of the stock market > and back into wages - or is that too optimistic? They happened at the same time - the cyclical peak in 2000-2001. If this is from the same CBO XLS that I have, then all levels moved roughly in tandem - rising through 2001, falling into 2003, then rising again. Doug

Document Size:	4958
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Jun 15 08:42:25 PDT 2011