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14146 [lbo-talk] NYT on French unions -- rank: 1000

JC Helary wrote: >But the general labor situation in Japan does not seem to me like it >is getting better especially on the low end of things. Japan is just coming out of 15 years of a near-zero-growth economy. Unemployment rose, but not dramatically. From a distance, it looks like labor didn't do all that terribly during the slump. What's it look like closer up? Doug

Document Size:	4857
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Thu Mar 30 06:05:42 PST 2006

14147 [lbo-talk] NYT on French unions -- rank: 1000

Nathan Newman wrote: >One of my all time favorite labor books is Geoghegan's WHICH SIDE ARE YOU >ON? which is practically non-stop criticism of unions. The difference is >that it's written from sympathy with those struggling to make unions >survive, not the predominantly hostility that you and Fitch who you quote >repeatedly express towards most of those involved in the union movement. Look Nathan. The people who are "struggling to make unions survive" are largely fail ...

Document Size:	5879
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Mar 29 18:54:30 PST 2006

14148 [lbo-talk] ruling class -- rank: 1000

Jim Devine wrote: > > Bill Bartlett wrote: >> >The capitalist class is a ruling class because it has a monopoly on >> >this economic power, not because it has a monopoly on political >> >power. > >Doug Henwood wrote: >> No state = no contracts, no money, no cops, no army. Try ruling >> without those things. > >but the bourgeoisie doesn't need to actually run the government or the >state (i.e., to govern) to get all of these thing ...

Document Size:	5327
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Mar 29 18:51:06 PST 2006

14149 [lbo-talk] ruling class -- rank: 1000

Bill Bartlett wrote: >At 6:50 PM -0500 29/3/06, Doug Henwood wrote: > >>>The capitalist class is a ruling class because it has a monopoly >>>on this economic power, not because it has a monopoly on political >>>power. >> >>No state = no contracts, no money, no cops, no army. Try ruling >>without those things. > >Sure, but what's your point exactly? That your point is bogus. Economic power is impossible without state power. Doug

Document Size:	4976
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Mar 29 18:49:12 PST 2006

14150 [lbo-talk] ruling class -- rank: 1000

Bill Bartlett wrote: >The capitalist class is a ruling class because it has a monopoly on >this economic power, not because it has a monopoly on political >power. No state = no contracts, no money, no cops, no army. Try ruling without those things. Doug

Document Size:	4663
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Mar 29 15:50:11 PST 2006

14151 [lbo-talk] NYT on French unions -- rank: 1000

Jim Devine wrote: >I noticed that. In a previous thread, I noted the similarity of his >attitude to that of the old USSR apologists, who saw any criticism of >the Soviet Union as reactionary. Hofstadter has a great line in his chapter about John C. Calhoun: reactionaries hear any criticism as the first shots of rebellion. Doug

Document Size:	4816
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Mar 29 15:49:02 PST 2006

14152 [lbo-talk] NYT on French unions -- rank: 1000

Carrol Cox wrote: >What if "we" did so and so now is an empty, even a foolish, question Yawn. Sometimes I wonder if you confuse the fatalism that comes with clinical depression with a political analysis. Doug

Document Size:	4682
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Mar 29 14:51:30 PST 2006

14153 [lbo-talk] NYT on French unions -- rank: 1000

Jim Devine wrote: >On 3/29/06, Nathan Newman <nathanne at nathannewman.org> wrote: >> Folks on the list seem to engage in almost mindless union-bashing without >even a nod in the direction of the legal reality under which US unions >operate.< > >can you quote some of this "almost mindless union-bashing," please? To Nathan, criticism = bashing. In that, he's sorta like a caricature of an early 1990s campus feminist. Doug

Document Size:	5044
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Mar 29 13:52:03 PST 2006

14154 [lbo-talk] NYT on French unions -- rank: 1000

Nathan Newman wrote: >How about Doug's comment about the success of the French union protests-- >"And all without >gangsters" slam on unions as corrupt mafiosas. It was an allusion to the last line of the NYT piece: >That progress has won the unions a measure of popular support far >larger than that enjoyed by American unions. Many people in the >United States take a jaundiced view of strikes because union members >are relatively better off than many private-sector ...

Document Size:	5442
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Mar 29 13:49:54 PST 2006

14155 [lbo-talk] I'm so depressed -- Stanislav Lem dead -- rank: 1000

Chris Doss wrote: >What about Asimov? According to my late friend John Liscio, who did a term as editor of Penthouse forum, Asimov was at all the porn film premieres. Doug

Document Size:	4809
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Mar 29 13:46:36 PST 2006

14156 [lbo-talk] NYT on French unions -- rank: 1000

andie nachgeborenen wrote: >Nathan is legally and probably politically correct, >but this would be class war -- and if there were a >strike like that here it would be class war -- and the >working class response would have to be escalate. Short of that, is there nothing we can learn from France? I find that very hard to believe. Doug

Document Size:	4837
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Mar 29 13:05:55 PST 2006

14157 [lbo-talk] NYT on French unions -- rank: 1000

Nathan Newman wrote: >What's amazing to me is that this list is all so excited about the French >protests with relatively little celebration of the largest rallies in Los >Angeles history Not true at all. There are several threads with subject headings like "500K rally in LA for immigrants' rights," "More on L.A.'s 'biggest public protest,'" and a report just this morning about high schoolers in fucking Dallas walking out of class in defense of immigrant rights. Why ...

Document Size:	5043
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Mar 29 12:48:27 PST 2006

14158 [lbo-talk] ruling class -- rank: 1000

Miles Jackson wrote: >That's what Mills would call the "economic sector" of the power >elite. (Jim provided a nice synopsis of Mills upthread). The more I >think about this, the more I agree with Mills that the term "ruling >class" is not very useful. Call me a dinosaur, but under capitalism, I think the "economic sector" is the ultimate power. Yes, I'll accept qualifications for partial state autonomy, "in the last instance," first among equa ...

Document Size:	5040
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Mar 29 12:11:25 PST 2006

14159 [lbo-talk] NYT on French unions -- rank: 1000

Chuck wrote: >Nathan Newman wrote: > >>If a similiar strike happened in the US, every major shop floor >>union leader would be told the next day that there was no job for >>them to return to. And the courts would not only uphold that >>decision but issue an injunction against any other union member >>threatening to strike in solidarity over those firings. > >Nothing ventured, nothing gained. You said in four words what I was about to say in 40. I never ...

Document Size:	5930
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Mar 29 11:33:51 PST 2006

14160 [lbo-talk] NYT on French unions -- rank: 1000

Carl Remick wrote: >So what the hell is wrong with the romantic legacy of the *American* >Revolution? It was the Jarvis-Gann of the 18th century; what's so romantic about a tax rebellion? Doug

Document Size:	4677
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Wed Mar 29 09:50:18 PST 2006