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1111 [lbo-talk] Taking the Pulse of Elite Response to OWS -- rank: 1000

On Oct 18, 2011, at 2:44 PM, // ravi wrote: > Because she was there at this panel and I don t remember the other names (so I write Dean and the anarchists , etc). When you wrote that the audience agreed that this was important and it was not going on in Zuccotti, the this (in my mind) could be two things. I thought at first that it referred to the actual content of the discussion as outlined by you ( college is prison , Foucault, Dean s criticism of process , etc). So I wrote my thought ...

Document Size:	6018
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Tue Oct 18 12:10:08 PDT 2011

1112 [lbo-talk] Taking the Pulse of Elite Response to OWS -- rank: 1000

On Oct 18, 2011, at 1:36 PM, // ravi wrote: > There s political analysis and there s political analysis. Assuming you don t blame them for protesting without a degree in political science or sociology (or a union membership card), what you can fault them for is wilful ignorance (a la the tea baggers). But such is not the case. They are willing to learn about the economic system, the Fed, how to counter Ron Paulites, and so on, from Stiglitz or you. That is political analysis, is it not? I am ...

Document Size:	5915
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Tue Oct 18 11:07:09 PDT 2011

1113 [lbo-talk] Taking the Pulse of Elite Response to OWS (fwd) -- rank: 1000

On Oct 18, 2011, at 1:37 PM, Michael Pollak wrote: > On Tue, 18 Oct 2011, Doug Henwood wrote: > >> Several audience members said that none of this is being discussed at Zuccotti. Everyone's too polite to fight. Anarchists are very much into manners. > > FWIW, at least one working guide to anarchist democracy considers too much politeness a corruption of the process. The following is from _Come Hell Or High Water: A Handbook on Collective Process Gone Awry_, by Delfina Vannucci ...

Document Size:	5692
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Tue Oct 18 10:57:49 PDT 2011

1114 [lbo-talk] Taking the Pulse of Elite Response to OWS -- rank: 1000

On Oct 18, 2011, at 1:21 PM, // ravi wrote: > This seems to imply that the panel members and audience thought that fights/debates between Jodi Dean and anarchists and such is central to what is going on in Zuccotti park I don't get your fixation on Jodi. I'm talking about deliberations among themselves, not with intellectuals in the outside world. Doug

Document Size:	5050
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Tue Oct 18 10:45:48 PDT 2011

1115 [lbo-talk] Taking the Pulse of Elite Response to OWS -- rank: 1000

On Oct 18, 2011, at 1:15 PM, Eric Beck wrote: > On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Doug Henwood <dhenwood at panix.com> wrote: > >> I thought you'd say that. Of course they're political. But the youth I talked to hadn't really thought things through politically. They had no political analysis to speak of. > > Right. Seems close to my experience as well. But those same people are > doing politics, even if they don't have an articulated analysis. > Politics doesn't req ...

Document Size:	5457
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Tue Oct 18 10:43:38 PDT 2011

1116 [lbo-talk] Taking the Pulse of Elite Response to OWS -- rank: 1000

On Oct 18, 2011, at 12:09 PM, Eric Beck wrote: > On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Doug Henwood <dhenwood at panix.com> wrote: > >> Glad to have amused you. Now would you mind disclosing the source of amusement? > > That unemployment and debt are nonpolitical. I thought you'd say that. Of course they're political. But the youth I talked to hadn't really thought things through politically. They had no political analysis to speak of. Doug

Document Size:	5272
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Tue Oct 18 10:04:48 PDT 2011

1117 [lbo-talk] Taking the Pulse of Elite Response to OWS -- rank: 1000

On Oct 18, 2011, at 11:56 AM, // ravi wrote: > If I understand your question right, the premise of your point is that Jodi Dean is the equivalent of a top scientist of a mature science. Where ever did you get that from? This is what I meant: Politics means conflict. It's inevitable, and delusional to think otherwise. Doug

Document Size:	5024
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Tue Oct 18 09:17:38 PDT 2011

1118 [lbo-talk] me, in Truthdig: Our Delusions of Grandeur Will Save the World -- rank: 1000

On Oct 18, 2011, at 11:50 AM, Bhaskar Sunkara wrote: > But what about the "new economy" boom of the 90s, didn't that seem offer > something, no matter how fleeting, to college grads? The unemployment rate broke below 4% and there were real wage gains across the distribution - every quantile, every demographic - from about 1995 to 2000. Five years out of the last 40! Doug

Document Size:	5308
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Tue Oct 18 09:11:29 PDT 2011

1119 [lbo-talk] Taking the Pulse of Elite Response to OWS -- rank: 1000

On Oct 18, 2011, at 11:41 AM, Eric Beck wrote: > On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 10:15 AM, Doug Henwood <dhenwood at panix.com> wrote: >> >> On Oct 18, 2011, at 10:53 AM, // ravi wrote: >> >>> Good for them for being polite enough not to fight. But also perhaps they just don t care? >> >> Then what are they doing messing with politics? > > Only somewhat related, I liked your comment of FB yesterday: "Hard to > say what the kids in the park re ...

Document Size:	5637
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Tue Oct 18 09:03:51 PDT 2011

1120 [lbo-talk] supply chain -- rank: 1000

Just got notified that Apple has shipped my iPhone 4S, so I checked the tracking info. FedEx picked it up in Shenzhen this morning, and it's now in HK. For some reason, I'd thought that they'd ship them from a distribution center in the U.S. But direct from China!

Document Size:	4801
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Tue Oct 18 08:34:20 PDT 2011

1121 [lbo-talk] Taking the Pulse of Elite Response to OWS -- rank: 1000

On Oct 18, 2011, at 10:53 AM, // ravi wrote: > Good for them for being polite enough not to fight. But also perhaps they just don t care? Then what are they doing messing with politics?

Document Size:	4884
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Tue Oct 18 08:15:36 PDT 2011

1122 [lbo-talk] Taking the Pulse of Elite Response to OWS -- rank: 1000

On Oct 18, 2011, at 7:47 AM, Charles Turner wrote: > On Oct 17, 2011, at 10:15 PM, Doug Henwood wrote: > >> It's where I bought the pink oxford button-down I wore to the Bluestockings event last Friday. > > What? No J. Press? ;-) Ha, no. Never even stepped into that store during my days in New Haven. Doug

Document Size:	5063
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Tue Oct 18 07:09:16 PDT 2011

1123 [lbo-talk] Taking the Pulse of Elite Response to OWS -- rank: 1000

On Oct 18, 2011, at 5:38 AM, Mike Beggs wrote: > Speaking of which, wasn't this going to be YouTubed? Did I miss a > link? Would love to hear at least a report. It's supposed to be. I think they've got ambitions about editing it. It came down to three "old" leftists - Marxist, socialist, whatever, meaning me, Jodi Dean, and Chris Mainsano (with the occasional assistance of the non-neutral moderator, Seth Ackerman, who did a splendid job) - against two anarchists - Malcolm Harris ...

Document Size:	6563
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Tue Oct 18 07:08:24 PDT 2011

1124 [lbo-talk] Taking the Pulse of Elite Response to OWS -- rank: 1000

On Oct 18, 2011, at 1:57 AM, Dennis Claxton wrote: > Anybody know what's good at Macy's? They used to have good cheese.

Document Size:	4812
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Tue Oct 18 07:02:33 PDT 2011

1125 [lbo-talk] query: from anarchist to marxist??? -- rank: 1000

On Oct 18, 2011, at 7:45 AM, shag carpet bomb wrote: > BTW, why has Chomsky always spoken of it as Libertarian rather than > Anarchist? I believe he's characterized himself as a libertarian socialist. Doug

Document Size:	4866
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Tue Oct 18 06:55:46 PDT 2011