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10216 [lbo-talk] Marx on profits -- rank: 1000

On Nov 26, 2007, at 11:51 PM, Seth Ackerman wrote: > But show the > child a chart of the profit rate over the last 200 years and he > will not > be able to make heads or tails of it. That's what I mean when I say > there's no FROP tendency. Ah, but you're not making the proper adjustments! Take out nonproductive capital, remove accounting froth, etc. etc., and voila: FROP!

Document Size:	4875
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Tue Nov 27 06:13:21 PST 2007

10217 [lbo-talk] Marx on profits -- rank: 1000

On Nov 26, 2007, at 11:31 PM, abu hartal wrote: > What has been done to restore profitability or to secure outlets > for the profitable investment of a mounting stock of idle capital? > Social democracy and collective bargaining have been scrapped. > Industries have been restructured to guarantee shareholder value. Yeah. Countervailing tendencies. Increased exploitation, cheapening of capital goods, foreign trade, growth in stock capital. It's mostly worked, at least until now. Dou ...

Document Size:	4981
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Tue Nov 27 06:12:13 PST 2007

10218 [lbo-talk] more on ADIA-C -- rank: 1000

On Nov 27, 2007, at 2:59 AM, Jordan Hayes wrote: > I think the buyback will be 9 months out. > >> Two years from now, another story. > > I think we agree, we're just are quibbling about the timetable :) Last time Citi got in trouble, after the collapse of the 80s leveraging mania, they were effectively nationalized. Nine months is an ambitious recovery schedule. Doug

Document Size:	4865
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Tue Nov 27 05:59:09 PST 2007

10219 [lbo-talk] more on ADIA-C -- rank: 1000

On Nov 26, 2007, at 10:16 PM, Jordan Hayes wrote: > If history is any guide, that's a good deal for ADIA that will get > paid > back handsomely by the market -- not Citicorp. Don't forget their > other > angel, Prince Al-Waleed, put up $550M in the early 90s in a similar > deal; those shares are worth ~$10B now. Ok, less in the last few > weeks. > But still. > > I'm long-term bullish on Citi; this is a buying opportunity. You may be right about them long-term. I w ...

Document Size:	5291
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Mon Nov 26 19:32:25 PST 2007

10220 [lbo-talk] tales of imperial decline (cont.) -- rank: 1000

<http://fleshbot.com/sex/masturbation/wal+mart-masturbator-cleans-up- in-aisle-8-326567.php>

Document Size:	4766
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Mon Nov 26 19:24:43 PST 2007

10221 [lbo-talk] more on ADIA-C -- rank: 1000

[from the WSJ link in the earlier news alert - ADIA is getting convertibles yielding 11%! - what a sweet deal - Jordan, they gonna pay a dividend or buy back stock on 11% money?] Abu Dhabi Invests $7.5 Billion in Citigroup By ROBIN SIDEL November 26, 2007 9:54 p.m. Citigroup Inc., seeking to restore investor confidence amid massive losses due in credit markets and a lack of permanent leadership, is receiving a $7.5 billion cash infusion from the investment arm of the Abu Dhabi government, a ...

Document Size:	8731
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Mon Nov 26 19:01:31 PST 2007

10222 [lbo-talk] Abu Dhabi gives Citi a hot beef injection -- rank: 1000

NEWS ALERT from The Wall Street Journal Nov. 26, 2007 Citigroup, seeking to restore investor confidence, is receiving a $7.5 billion cash infusion from the investment arm of the Abu Dhabi government. As a result of the deal, the investment authority known as ADIA will become one of Citigroup's largest shareholders, with a stake of less than 5%. The stake will exceed that of Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal, long known as one of Citigroup's largest shareholders. For more information, please s ...

Document Size:	5201
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Mon Nov 26 18:50:26 PST 2007

10223 [lbo-talk] Marx on profit -- rank: 1000

On Nov 26, 2007, at 9:28 PM, Michael Perelman wrote: > That is not what Marx wrote. He said that there was a TENDENCY to > fall & gave > offsetting tendencies. Yes, it's true, the next chapter is on countervailing tendencies. You don't hear much about that chapter from the IWGVT types, do you? Doug

Document Size:	4769
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Mon Nov 26 18:49:05 PST 2007

10224 [lbo-talk] Marx on profit -- rank: 1000

On Nov 26, 2007, at 9:02 PM, joanna wrote: > 1. Capitalism so far has always been partial, it depends (someone > famous > said this, Gramsci) and the continued existence of non-capitalist > modes > on its perifery from which it draws the content it claims not to need. > When that periphery is absorbed, then indeed the profit rate will > go to > zero. That was Rosa Luxemburg's line. I like what Solidarity has to say about that: <http://www.solidarity-us.org/node/255> ...

Document Size:	6793
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Mon Nov 26 18:48:08 PST 2007

10225 [lbo-talk] so, school me -- rank: 1000

On Nov 26, 2007, at 6:46 PM, Carrol Cox wrote: > This is so bizarre -- discussing a Ron Paul campaign as though we > lived > in a world where he conceiveably could be president and his policies > make a difference. Weird! I don't get it. You throw around the word "incoherent" the way a monkey throws his feces - the archives have 85 of your posts containing the word - yet a Paul-Kucinich alliance is ok? What is it then? A joke? A surrealist bombshell? What? Doug

Document Size:	4953
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Mon Nov 26 17:29:51 PST 2007

10226 [lbo-talk] Marx on profit -- rank: 1000

On Nov 26, 2007, at 5:16 PM, bhandari at berkeley.edu wrote: > Many seem to think that the present boom in profits, though coupled > with > anemic net investment in the US, cannot be accounted for by Marx's > theory. > Yet as I read Nicholas Véron, et al Smoke and Mirrors, Inc: > Accounting for > Capitalism it may well be that through financial acumen of the > accountants > we are getting deranged view of the success of the captains of > industry. The profits boom o ...

Document Size:	5469
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Mon Nov 26 15:12:15 PST 2007

10227 [lbo-talk] malicious liar -- rank: 1000

On Nov 26, 2007, at 4:06 PM, Seth Ackerman wrote: > Even Kliman says he makes no claim that his TSSI interpretation is > actually a correct description of the world, only that it's internally > consistent. You could say the same of a paranoid's logic, and I'm entirely serious. It's usually internally consistent - it's just untethered from reality. Doug

Document Size:	4815
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Mon Nov 26 13:28:07 PST 2007

10228 [lbo-talk] Kliman on Marx -- rank: 1000

On Nov 26, 2007, at 1:41 PM, Rakesh Bhandari wrote: > Doug thinks > there are no real world consequences. I don't > agree, but that reflects a pragmatist conception > of truth which I don't accept anyway. Yeah, and Jerry Levy used to call me a vulgar empiricist. In any case, I certainly don't subscribe to a "pragmatist conception of truth." Were that the case, I'd probably have applied for work at Goldman Sachs long ago and dabbled in Democratic politics on the side. It ...

Document Size:	5764
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Mon Nov 26 11:33:42 PST 2007

10229 [lbo-talk] Kliman on Marx -- rank: 1000

On Nov 26, 2007, at 12:59 PM, Gary Mongiovi wrote: > Still, Doug is right that it's hard to see why some people get so > worked up about it. I've argued with Kliman et al. about these > issues because they are interesting to me. But I wouldn't presume > they will be interesting to most people. And I sure don't see why > the debate can't be collegial & constructive. Glad to hear you say this, Gary. Katha Pollitt has an essay in her latest collection, Learning to Drive, about t ...

Document Size:	5311
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Mon Nov 26 10:12:29 PST 2007

10230 [lbo-talk] US economy "in a mess" -- rank: 1000

[from the lead story in today's FT] Peter Sutherland, chairman of both Goldman Sachs International and BP, joined those voicing concern. The US economy is in a mess, he told TV3, an Irish TV channel, on Sunday. There is a whole big issue...which has not fully played out in regard to providing credit and liquidity to institutions, so I think it is a dangerous period for the world. I think we are going to go through next year, certainly the first half of next year, with considerable traum ...

Document Size:	5197
Author:	Doug Henwood
Date:	Mon Nov 26 09:51:05 PST 2007