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721 Zizek: Occupy Serbia! -- rank: 1000

At 10:04 28/05/99 -0400, you wrote: >Well, Chris Burford, you'll be happy to hear that at a bookstore appearance >in NYC last night, Slavoj Zizek said that while he opposed NATO's bombing, >he nonetheless supported the "total occupation" of Serbia. He didn't say >how or by whom. > >Doug Well, no, and I have tried to search around for a few more clues about Zizek but he is elusive. I pick up a dialectical teasing with contrasting subjective superficial perspectives on ...

Document Size:	7360
Author:	Chris Burford
Date:	Fri May 28 15:16:03 PDT 1999

722 It's no genocide -- rank: 1000

This is an interesting take which moves us on a bit about what we are arguing about. I agree any serious analysis of how genocide as defined by the UN Convention of Genocide, which Charles is using, should not involve demonization. How such phenomena come about is complex. Nevertheless the Convention is there. I do not rule out Charles's argument that there may be more serious charges to answer by the other side in specific cases, such as this one, but I think it would have to be argued through. ...

Document Size:	7316
Author:	Chris Burford
Date:	Thu May 27 23:32:42 PDT 1999

723 No simple economic motive in Balkans -- rank: 1000

At 19:07 27/05/99 +0100, Jim H wrote: >Why is it that the left feels the need to reduce itself to some kind of >right-wing caricature of narrow economic determinism when talking about >war? Politics operates at a level that is at many mediations from >economics, and war even more so. There most certainly is an underlying economic logic to this war. It is a war between the mode of organisation of late finance capital, based on large transnational markets, and offering perfect equalit ...

Document Size:	5998
Author:	Chris Burford
Date:	Thu May 27 15:33:32 PDT 1999

724 The Genocide Convention -- rank: 1000

Thanks for comments by Frances, Charles, and Rakesh on genocide in the US. At 09:35 27/05/99 -0400, Charles also wrote: >Charles: Again, a jury or court would not necessarily find that because the U.S. is "bombing a country run by a political coalition which it wants to defeat" is a defense to the charge here, if it finds that the conduct fits the anti-genocide language. And there is a colorable legal argument that NATO's conduct violates the anti-genocide law. Of course, the other ...

Document Size:	10730
Author:	Chris Burford
Date:	Thu May 27 14:58:33 PDT 1999

725 The Genocide Convention -- rank: 1000

At 09:27 26/05/99 -0400, Charles wrote: >Yes, I posted this Convention to the list before related to the issue of the charge brought by William Patterson against the U.S. in 1951 for genocide against the Negro People. < I missed that post but I appreciate how you may have assembled the evidence. Was it not revealed recently how black people in one US town were secretly infected with syphilis to study its long term effects? > You leap too quickly to the conclusion that NATO or any of it ...

Document Size:	7511
Author:	Chris Burford
Date:	Wed May 26 15:16:00 PDT 1999

726 Zizek speaks -- rank: 1000

Interesting direct clarification. I accept that Zizek should not be quoted as supporting the bombing. I too also had some reservations about the apparent identification with "the West" and I assumed this reflected his position as a Slovene, accepting the logic of late 20th century European economic and social patterns. I have little knowledge of him apart from the fact that he has Doug's regard. My impression from this piece is that underneath the way he plays with the subtleties of su ...

Document Size:	8946
Author:	Chris Burford
Date:	Wed May 26 14:24:05 PDT 1999

727 genocide in Kraijina -- rank: 1000

At 15:17 25/05/99 -0400, Doug wrote: Re: British TV jury finds against Nato >Chris Burford wrote: > >>While I welcomed the end of western imperialist appeasement of Serbian >>fascism in Bosnia, I specifically denounced and exposed the ethnic >>cleansing by the Croat regime of Kraijina, as zealously as Doug and others >>are exposing the imperialist features of the present war by NATO. > >So, Chris, you'll admit that if what Serbs are doing in Kosovo is a >ge ...

Document Size:	7493
Author:	Chris Burford
Date:	Wed May 26 13:10:53 PDT 1999

728 The Genocide Convention -- rank: 1000

At 13:52 25/05/99 -0400, you wrote: Re: British TV jury finds against Nato >Chris, > >Here are genocide and other charges against NATO > > >Charles I have changed the thread title. The Genocide Convention adopted by the United Nations General Assembly on 9 December 1948 defines the crime as "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national ethnic, racial or religious group'. Signatory nations may ask the UN to take action to prevent and suppress acts ...

Document Size:	8542
Author:	Chris Burford
Date:	Tue May 25 13:52:39 PDT 1999

729 Zizek speaks -- rank: 1000

At 20:21 24/05/99 -0400, you wrote: >Slavoj Zizek will read from his new Verso book, The Ticklish Subject: The >Absent Centre of Political Ontology, at Posman Books, 1 University Pl, New >York (just north of Washington Sq Park), Thursday, May 27, 7 PM. > >Doug I do not recall you commenting on the following passages from his article in the latest New Left Review. Are you in agreement with them? Or do I wholly misunderstand their significance? Chris Burford London _________________ ...

Document Size:	6659
Author:	Chris Burford
Date:	Tue May 25 14:02:21 PDT 1999

730 British TV jury finds against Nato -- rank: 1000

At 12:59 25/05/99 -0400, you wrote: >Chris, > Since you are so insistent on applying the >charge of genocide against Milosevic based >on his forced deportation of hundreds of thousands >of Albanians (which I have denounced with such >vigor that I have been told to shut up about it over >on pen-l) How is that going to make the discussion more relevant to the actual situation? , then would you support a similar charge >against Croatian president Franjo Tudjman who > ...

Document Size:	5690
Author:	Chris Burford
Date:	Tue May 25 11:44:04 PDT 1999

731 British TV jury finds against Nato -- rank: 1000

At 19:49 23/05/99 -0400, you wrote: >NATO is probably guilty of violating the UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide by its mass murder of Serbian people, who are members of a national group. > >Charles Brown > >>>> Chris Burford <cburford at gn.apc.org> 05/23/99 06:45PM >>> >At 21:00 23/05/99 +0100, you wrote: >And indeed NATO is guilty as charged in the indictment above. >But Serbia is guilty of contravening inter ...

Document Size:	7062
Author:	Chris Burford
Date:	Mon May 24 15:48:28 PDT 1999

732 Preparing for imperialist peace? -- rank: 1000

One of the great weaknesses of the left political line which consists *solely* of opposition to the war by NATO against Serbian Yugoslavia, is that it fails to analyse and therefore to criticise the nature of the peace that will follow, and which is being shaped even now. In broad terms the Serbs have thoroughly defeated the Kosovo Albanians and driven all but a few of them from their homeland. The NATO coalition even without the use of ground troops is clearly well set to defeat Serbia. The at ...

Document Size:	7087
Author:	Chris Burford
Date:	Mon May 24 14:22:59 PDT 1999

733 The weakness of the anti-war movement -- rank: 1000

At 23:06 22/05/99 +0100, you wrote: >In message <3.0.2.32.19990520235841.01284378 at pop.gn.apc.org>, Chris >Burford <cburford at gn.apc.org> wrote >>> >>>>As General Mladic, the Serb general in Bosnia said, rape is good for >>>>soldiers' morale. > >and I asked for a reference > >to which Wing Commander (Armchair Division) Burford replied > >>Does Jim find the remark so unbelievable? Rape does indeed strengthen a >>cer ...

Document Size:	5609
Author:	Chris Burford
Date:	Sun May 23 15:38:02 PDT 1999

734 British TV jury finds against Nato -- rank: 1000

At 21:00 23/05/99 +0100, you wrote: >Tonight British Television's Channel Four conducted a debate to try Nato >on the charge of blundering into the Kosovan conflict and worsening the >humanitarian disaster. > >After hearing the case for Nato presented by author Michael Ignatieff >and Labour MP Ben Bradshaw, and the case against presented by Bob >Marshall-Andrews MP (Lab) and Germaine Greer, as well as expert >witnesses including Jamie Shea and Sir Michael Rose, the televi ...

Document Size:	5576
Author:	Chris Burford
Date:	Sun May 23 15:45:39 PDT 1999

735 Zeneca stifles anti-imperialist GM protest -- rank: 1000

"Protestors were carried out of the AstraZeneca annual meeting yesterday after co-chairman David Barnes was subjected to a barrage of questions about his firm's involvement in genetic engineering and ethical standards. The interruption came from two environmental groups who want to protect third world farmers from being controlled by multi-national companies. They were disturbed by the growing number of patents owned by the company which might prevent poor farmers collecting and sowing thei ...

Document Size:	5052
Author:	Chris Burford
Date:	Sun May 23 04:10:08 PDT 1999